Quick Start Front

[Masco]

I've been looking at the book "Pinewood Derby Speed Secrets" by David Meade (for a couple years now) and the "Quick Start" design has always been something I've wondered about. We have never done it, but curious about the experiences people have had with this design.

Basically, the idea is that by building the car so that the front is resting as high as possible on the starting pin, the car will be able to start rolling sooner than those resting lower on the pin. In principle this makes perfect sense, but only if the pins move out of the way at a speed less than the cars accelerate (or something like that).

My thinking is that the electric starting systems move the gates out of the way very quickly and that there is probably no real advantage to this kind of a design. Thoughts?

[Vitamin K]

Honestly, I think quick start fronts are an unnecessary gimmick. Most start-sections (even the non-electronic ones) flip down fast enough that it takes a moment for the car to overcome the initial inertia and begin moving anyhow, so the bar is already well cleared before you get any forward motion.

Meade's book is decent, but I don't agree with everything in there.

I've been looking at the book "Pinewood Derby Speed Secrets" by David Meade (for a couple years now) and the "Quick Start" design has always been something I've wondered about. We have never done it, but curious about the experiences people have had with this design.

Basically, the idea is that by building the car so that the front is resting as high as possible on the starting pin, the car will be able to start rolling sooner than those resting lower on the pin. In principle this makes perfect sense, but only if the pins move out of the way at a speed less than the cars accelerate (or something like that).

My thinking is that the electric starting systems move the gates out of the way very quickly and that there is probably no real advantage to this kind of a design. Thoughts?

[ngyoung]

Those are out dated. The starting gates now are fast enough where that doesn't give any advantage. The only time I would say it could give an advantage is on an old track where someone is manually flipping a lever to lower the starting pins.

I know some cringe when adult league racing is brought up but if something like that was an advantage, every car in those leagues would be using it. Same goes for other tricks, if they aren't being implemented at that level they either don't work or there is a better way that trumps it.

[whodathunkit]

Hi Masco, and

There are a few topics about the quick start front ends here on DT.
Here is a link to what alot of fellow derby talkers had to say about this type of front end.
http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6286.

Most of the tracks have the spring loaded start gates and taller starting pins to hold the cars now or days.

But not all there are still a few packs in my area that use the older homemade wooden tracks:
With the hand dump type of lever for the starting gate and some use shorter starter pins
that only stick up 1/2 inch or so from the track surface.

You've really got to watch the spring open style gates also:
Some will really slam back and bump the track makeing the cars jump or shift at the start.
Or the track operator will pull back on the handel to hard moveing the track as well.

And that's why in League racing:
You don't see the hand dump or the spring open style gates being used much.. if at all.

Today I don't see any reasons to DQ a car useing this type of front end.
Enless it just doesent fit the starting gate on the track it is running on.

[FatSebastian]

I've been looking at the book "Pinewood Derby Speed Secrets" by David Meade (for a couple years now) and the "Quick Start" design has always been something I've wondered about. [...] Thoughts?

FWIW, here is a review of some caveats that might accompany that reference. There you will find a link to an article by MaxV discussing the (in)effectiveness of such a design.

[bracketracer]

If you'll skip ahead to the 40 second mark to save time, you'll see why quick start fronts aren't needed on a modern start gate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ALgd5a9yss

Those are .4g bearing razors. Very little inertia and even they can't keep up with the pins. (Sorry about the razoring in the vid, my camera doesn't deal well with angled line but you get the idea anyway)


That being said, if you have to race on an older, homemade track where the pins pull down instead of rotate, the quick start might have a slight advantage.

[BallBoy]

That video was mesmerizing. In addition to the intent of the video, I found the movement of the springs fascinating. I guess it doesn't take much to entertain me.

[bracketracer]

That video was mesmerizing. In addition to the intent of the video, I found the movement of the springs fascinating. I guess it doesn't take much to entertain me.

Lol! Me too! There's things you see in slo-mo that you'd never notice at full speed.

[Stan Pope]

Visualize the comparison to a gate which is held in place until released and is then allowed to be pushed away by the cars! I've seen one of those in the past 15 years ... in council races, no less!

[whodathunkit]

Stan, makes a good point!

How about self stageing.. a car on a spring open style gate
and lifting the front end of the car up just so that front wheels are a hair off the track
and let it push off on the back two wheels.

What are some of the things you could visualize.. seeing going wrong with this type of start gate.
http://www.pinewoodderbycars.com/Pinewo ... pd-902.htm
I can visualize un even starts for at least one car on the track if the hand held starting gate is not lifted or pulled stright up..
Or even if it's to be pushed away in a down slope manner to the track.