Pinewood Derby World Championship

[ngyoung]

Here is a pic showing axle inspection holes for scout cars:

[Speedster]

NYCracer, we've been racing under your rules for the past 30 years. I think you'll be fine. Since you're racing champion cars I suspect many skilled builders have cut their own slots. It's not necessary to bend axles to build a rail rider or go to the recommended degree of cant. The rear wheels will migrate to the axle heads with 1 degree of cant and the wheels will still sit flat because of the slop in the bore. This can be accomplished using the screw technique and I'm sure other ways. None of the axles are going to be inserted perfectly. You have a rule, as we do, that can't be enforced because it can't be detected. That makes it a poor rule. Scout nails are very inexpensive from vendors. All that it requires is to locate one that is not perfectly straight and that's easy to do. That's the one that will be used for the Dominant Front Wheel. Installing that axle with Positive camber and slight toe-in will direct the car to ride the guide strip. Unskilled builders are using bent axles without knowing it. By narrowing the car body 1/16" at the Dominant Front Wheel, the Dominant Front Wheel will now be the only wheel to touch the guide strip. Probably the skilled builder has shifted the wheelbase by cutting a 1/4" off the back and moving it to the front. You do not have a rule against this. How many cars would actually roll straight if they were tested on a level, flat surface? I think very few. This would indicate bent axles, some kind of camber, crooked slots, junk wheels, etc. The unskilled builder is unknowingly breaking more of the rules than the skilled builder. Since you don't have the "4 on the Ground" rule, I think the winner is going to be a 3 wheel rail rider by the scout and his helper who have spent the time following the Laws of Physics and taken advantage of the BSA junk nails. Reading Derbytalk helps a lot too.
The 2009 mold wheel no longer has the imperfection on the tread that I think is called a sprue mark.
Is there anyway you can let the scouts stage their own cars? That's a lot of the fun plus if they drop it it's THEIR fault.
Best of Luck with your race. Let us know how it goes. Might we see a picture of the winning car?
Cheers,
Speedster

[NYCracer]

Hi All!

I'm totally overwhelmed by your passionate responses and I truly can't thank you all enough for the great info! I'll be reaching out to some of the folks mentioned in the thread in the next day or two, and I'm we'll likely have updated rules published in the next week.

We have some VERY big plans for this event, and being in Times Square gives us an extraordinarly visible venue. This first year, part of a 5 year plan to host a true worldwide event, is mostly about discovery and planning, and of course running a fair race. You wouldn't believe some of the challenges in putting together an event on Broadway! The expense is incredible and the logistics are simply mind blowing, but we have a great team with a proven track record working to pull it off.

Just as an FYI, we have tentative but firm commitments to be seen on at least one of the national networks as a human interest story the morning of the event, with a couple of Scouts displaying and talking about their cars. We're also working with a very talented producer who specializes in these one off sporting events, like the Coney Island Hot Dog eating contest, which is a niche event with a national following - but that's where we're headed! Our goal is to raise awareness of Scouting by making us very visible while having fun.

Stay tuned for more updates, please pass the word along!

YIS,

Matt G

[Stan Pope]

I think that this event really need not worry about consistency with various council/district/pack rules. Making the event convenient to ALL or, even, MOST Scouts is not what this World Championship is about. This event is about positive publicity for Scouting.

We can provide more such positive publicity for Scouting by holding similar World Championship events in many BSA councils, in Canada, etc.! In fact, perhaps adding the "World Championship" tag to your district races makes sense ... if you have an "open" category that does not require placing well in a qualifying event such as a pack race.

Remember that a district race that requires qualifying (e.g. fastest 3 or 4 in each age group) serves the individual Scouts directly by their participation and indirectly by encouraging packs to hold races. A district race that does not require qualifying does not provide the indirect support to the individual Scout, and a district race that is too selective (e.g. top 3 in pack) does not provide meaningful direct support to them. In fact, a district race that does not require qualifying may do a disservice by giving packs with "lazy leadership" an excuse to NOT hold a pack race.

[Stan Pope]

...
We can provide more such positive publicity for Scouting by holding similar World Championship events in many BSA councils, in Canada, etc.! In fact, perhaps adding the "World Championship" tag to your district races makes sense ... if you have an "open" category that does not require placing well in a qualifying event such as a pack race.

This suggestion was partly tongue in cheek ... I fully recognize that just calling my district race a "World Championship" and issuing invitations to councils all over North America doesn't make my race a world championship. I also need "buy-in" by those guest councils, in effect forming an extensive coalition of councils to "sanction" the event.

[rcmoeur]

Revell axles are technically BSA axles, so they're permitted. Bob has a full set of US & Chinese BSA axles for comparison at the inspection table. Now as to whether the shaft & tip are the same piece of metal: that would require some dang careful machining and construction. Not impossible, but it would seem the work vs reward might not be there. But we could eventually be proven wrong...

[Stan Pope]

... Now as to whether the shaft & tip are the same piece of metal: that would require some dang careful machining and construction. Not impossible, ...

With a hacksaw and file, perhaps???

[Maglev]

@ Matt - NYC Racer - anxiously looking forward to the updated rules for this race, it's getting closer, we need to decide if the current district winning car will do or do we need to rebuild!!

Please post the updated rules at this site and the event website also. Thanks.

Maglev

[gpraceman]

Here's an article about the race that I came across.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/brook ... -1.2260265

[gpraceman]

It seems that the rules were modified and posted on their site. There are now two racing divisions, instead of one.

https://www.bsa-gnyc.org/officialrules

If anyone goes to the race, let us know how things went.

[Stan Pope]

I see that "crowing" the tread is still not allowed ... is this something new? Or might they mean "crowning?"

What would "crowing" mean? Adding feathers? Rooster sound effects? Excessive bragging?

[Darin McGrew]

Excessive bragging could be related to sportsmanship (or lack thereof).

[Stan Pope]

The alternative meanings were tongue-in-cheek.

Note that for Pro-Stock Class, the inclusion of "Crowning" (and other restrictions) to the list of prohibitions is redundant ... the rule already requires "The tread / contact surface must remain flat and parallel to the bore."

[Stan Pope]

The alternative meanings were tongue-in-cheek.

Note that for Pro-Stock Class, the inclusion of "Crowning" (and other restrictions) to the list of prohibitions is redundant ... the rule already requires "The tread / contact surface must remain flat and parallel to the bore."

Should a ruleset include such redundancies? My preference is "No!" for several reasons:

1. Redundancies are additional risk as rules evolve.
2. Redundancies such as restrictions increase the probability of misunderstanding ... e.g. "My car's feature is not on the list of prohibitions and is, therefore, legal." But a prior rule already made both "my car's feature" as well as the list of prohibitions illegal!

I prefer to address such items as specific (redundant) restrictions in an interpretation or Q&A document which can be updated as questions are asked of, and answered by, the event's officials.

[gpraceman]

Here's a news clip about the event. Steve Monk, from Best Track, was there with his sons helping out.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/432669295100 ... show-clips