A few years back I registered for Derby Talk, but somehow my username and email aren't syncing up, so I had to re-register. Life hasn't been kind the past few years, so my Pinewood collection hasn't been on the front burner, and hasn't had a lot added to it til recently, I am reconnecting with it. Anyway, I'm back.
I've got a small (by comparison) collection, that I enjoy showing and sharing at my local Derbies. I enjoy talking to people about their cars, the kits used to build them, and other things. But I got asked about the medals in my collection a few days ago, I was asked how old they are, and I didn't know. So I'm turning to Derby Talk and its members to ask your help in educating me on the history and dating of the medals. Is there a way to date them?
As I said, my collection is small compared to most of yours, but my passion to share it hopefully makes up for that. My medals section, I admit is lacking, but I'm working to increase it, to include all of the medals, and variations issued by BSA (and any other group that's issued medals for their versions of the Pinewood). I'm not only wanting to share the items, but also the history behind them, and the only way to do that is to learn it. Lol, I recall saying in a previous post from my prior registration, something to the effect of, "I sit at the feet of the masters, eager to learn. So that I may one day be the teacher, and share the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that I have come to know and learn from the masters themselves". I'm your student, teach me oh wise ones. Teach me the histories and mysteries of the Pinewood, so that I in turn can keep this torch of knowledge held aloft, that future generations will all remember that it all started with "four wheels, four nails, three blocks of wood, and a brown paper bag", and that they to can marvel at what it's become in its nearly 63 year history.
I'm sure I'm going to have several questions along the way, as my collection/display grows, my thirst for knowledge will increase also. But at this point, I'm focusing on the medals, and I thank and appreciate any assistance that you can give me. I'm excited to be back.
I think I have talked to you on a different website some time back.
And like you I'm a collector of all things pinewood derby..
the medals will be harder to track if there not from BSA supply.
However if the medals are from BSA supply You can track the dates or the years used.
but you'll need to track them threw the Cub Scout supply catalogs or threw the Boy's Life mag Adds.
Some of the very first pinewood derby awards from BSA supply were seen in the Cub Scout supply catalogs:
Starting in 1960 the first awards adds were the pinewood derby molds made of plaster.. No 1697 for 39 cents.
Here's a photo of a sept 1st 1960 Cub Scout supply add showing the plaster award.(seen in the middle of the page.)
Then in 65/66 pinewood derby ribbons.. No.7708 for 10 cents.
Also a cub scout derby trophy..racing car figurine on a 3 1/2" walnut base with a engraving plate.
No 1687 for $3.00 .
Then in 66/67 contest place ribbons.. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, place... No 7709 package of 15 for 79 cents.
Plus a trophy award cup- plastic award cup on a black base .. NO 5077 for 29 cents.
So it's likely if the medals are medals offered from BSA supply
they would have to start sometime in the late 60's and used threw the 80's
to give you and idea on where to start tracking them for dates.
Maybe you could post a few photos of the medals your looking for dates on:
Some of the type 1.. pin on ribbon's with medals are the yellow and blue ribbons with the gold, silver, or bronze medals.
with a car on the medal like that of a 1956 -60 pinewood derby car.
Type 2 the car on the medal looks more like that of the 70's - 80's pinewood derby car.
Type 3 were red,white,blue ribbons with matching insets with the cars in gold, silver, or bronze.
I'm willing to look threw my collection of catalog's and Boy's life mags to help out.
I dug threw some of my pinewood derby collection tonight for some of the medals
you might be asking about how to put dates on.
Here are some photos of the pin on ribbon medals styles
I have seen some of the type 1 pin on ribbon medals with the words pinewood derby on the medals as well.
Looking at the car styles seen on the pin on ribbon medals:
I would say that you could get very close with the dates just based off of the car styles seen on the medals.
As one way at looking at it for putting a date on the metals as well.
Kind of a crazy question on type 3's, but what is their ranking? I mean types 1 and 2, have Gold (1st), Silver (2nd), and Bronze (3rd), but what's 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Red, White, Blue? Did that make sense?
I guess that the ribbons/medals are a lot like the trophies, Packs purchased them from trophy shops, so weren't always BSA. I have a few trophies, but none of them are BSA. My oldest trophy is from 1958.
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
- Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
As far as I know, Blue = 1st, Red = 2nd, White = 3rd, like the ribbons handed out at a County Fair.ProjectPinewood wrote:Kind of a crazy question on type 3's, but what is their ranking? I mean types 1 and 2, have Gold (1st), Silver (2nd), and Bronze (3rd), but what's 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Red, White, Blue?
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
There was also some black neck drape medals in gold, silver, bronze.
These are the medals i'm thinking of that have the pinewood derby letting on them
that look somewhat like that of the pin on ribbon type 1 medals.
I was at my Council Scout Store yesterday, and asked about the color ranking, but the Scouter I spoke with didn't know. He said he feels that they (BSA) are getting away from the 1st, 2nd 3rd type medal ranking, so that everyone is a winner. The funny thing about that is that the current Pinewood Derby medals, while not saying it outright, are placed in the same value/ranking as you described, Blue, Red, then White. The same is true of the Raingutter Regatta, and Space Derby medals. Why such a specific order, unless it has significance. I mean to me logically, if I were putting them out, I would go red, white then blue, as this is the order these colors are placed on the ribbon, and also traditionally referred to in this order when speaking of them collectively. But we are talking award ranking, so it makes sense that it would follow the Blue, Red, White order, just as any other contest.
Lol, the Scouter did say that he didn't know, and the labeling on the store display, nor the packaging of the medals, says otherwise. So I'll be displaying my medals, in the Blue, Red, White order.
He said he feels that they (BSA) are getting away from the 1st, 2nd 3rd type medal ranking, so that everyone is a winner.
Well that sucks to hear. I've never been a fan of the "everyone is a winner" mentality (that's what participation ribbons are for!). It puts unrealistic real world expectations in the youths heads, that only leads to an entitlement attitude. Especially would hate to see the Scouts going the same way.
I know at our Derby everyone wins something, such as "best paint", "most artistic use of chewing gum", or whatever, but we still have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for racing, because that's what the racing portion is all for, otherwise it's simply a car show, with no need for a track.
I just got thinking, that the old ribbons for winners are Blue, so apparently BSA has been using Blue for first for years. Maybe it isn't coincidence that the ribbons are blue, 1st place in contests is blue, and cub scouts colors are blue and gold (hmm, aren't blue and gold both the colors of 1st place, talk about irony). Now that the color values has been said/posted for all, then it all starts to make sense. Cub Scouts motto, "Do Your Best", Boy Scouts motto, "Be Prepared", scouting is teaching the boys to be leaders, you can't lead if your 2nd place. Not conceited, but confident, because your prepared to do your best, because your prepared "for any old thing". Just my thought on it.