Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

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S1C EM
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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:32 am

Vitamin K wrote:
S1C EM wrote:Speedster, are the polishing methods you list compatible with graphite?

The rules in mine are STRICT. Essentially, if you do it by the book, every part you use has to come from the "original" kit and absolutely NO we'll modifications are allowed outside of sanding burrs.
Are you allowed to polish the wheel bores? That's what the Novus does. A Tamiya swab (87106) does well for this.

Liquid glass is compatible with graphite. I would make sure that you let it cure for 8 hours before going to the graphite burnishing step, personally.
Yes, you can polish the bore as far as I know, which I have already done. Unfortunately, I was not aware of Novus and liquid glass before now and it's really too late to get it here in time to try it. You're just not allowed to have lathe-cut wheels, tapered bores (inner or outer), and all details must still be present and visible. No reduction of weight, either.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:39 am

S1C EM wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
Are you allowed to polish the wheel bores? That's what the Novus does. A Tamiya swab (87106) does well for this.

Liquid glass is compatible with graphite. I would make sure that you let it cure for 8 hours before going to the graphite burnishing step, personally.
Yes, you can polish the bore as far as I know, which I have already done. Unfortunately, I was not aware of Novus and liquid glass before now and it's really too late to get it here in time to try it. You're just not allowed to have lathe-cut wheels, tapered bores (inner or outer), and all details must still be present and visible. No reduction of weight, either.
If you can't get ahold of Novus 2, you might try whitening toothpaste for smoothing the bores.

Also, there are a number of off-the-shelf synthetic waxes that could probably do instead of Liquid Glass. You may be able to find Meguiar's Ultimate Wax at your local auto parts store. Basically you're looking for synthetic wax products that repel oil and water and dry to hard coating. You don't want anything with carnuaba in it.

Truthfully, though, for graphite, I think the wax step is less critical than if you're running oil. I think you gain more from burnishing the graphite into the bores than anything else.

Are you allowed to use axle treatments? A lot of folks swear by a coat of Lemon Pledge on the axles for running graphite.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:43 am

Oddly, the axles don't really get mentioned other than needing to be the "nails from the original box". Mine already aren't since those nails were garbage. The ones I've ordered did come from a BSA kit, though.

I feel like lemon pledge and graphite wouldn't mix, though. Am I wrong? I know if they detect liquid/oil, the car could be DQ'd.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:47 am

S1C EM wrote:Oddly, the axles don't really get mentioned other than needing to be the "nails from the original box". Mine already aren't since those nails were garbage. The ones I've ordered did come from a BSA kit, though.

I feel like lemon pledge and graphite wouldn't mix, though. Am I wrong? I know if they detect liquid/oil, the car could be DQ'd.
I've tried the Lemon Pledge before. It definitely didn't hurt, though I haven't done real testing to say if it's faster or not.

What I did was spray the axles with pledge and then spray a paper towel with some pledge as well. Then I wiped them off to leave behind a thin film, which I let sit (in a dust-free container) for about 15 minutes to allow any propellant to evaporate before inserting into my graphite burnished bores. Then I spun in some more graphite.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:50 am

Gotcha. And when you say graphite burnished bore, what do you mean? I tried getting graphite on a pipe cleaner and also small makeup swabs and running those through the bore; however, the graphite doesn't stick well to either and I really am not sure it did much of anything.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:13 pm

S1C EM wrote:Gotcha. And when you say graphite burnished bore, what do you mean? I tried getting graphite on a pipe cleaner and also small makeup swabs and running those through the bore; however, the graphite doesn't stick well to either and I really am not sure it did much of anything.
When we do graphite, we use two different kinds of graphite...a pure graphite for burnishing and a graphite/moly blend for the final lube. We use Max-V graphite for the burnish and Hob-E-Lube for the lubrication.

To burnish, I use a polished steel rod...the straight axle from a pinecar race kit will work, or the base of a #41 drill bit. Then I set out a foam rubber pad and take a wheel. I'll put my finger over one end of the bore and then fill the bore with as much pure graphite as it can hold. Then I transfer the rod into the wheel, trying to knock out as little graphite as possible. Holding both ends of the rod, I press the wheel into the foam rubber and roll it back and forth, back and forth until all of the graphite has worked out of the wheel. Then I add more graphite and repeat the process.

I try to do this at least 3 times for each wheel. It's a good test of patience for kids working on their builds.

For the inner hub, try putting some graphite on a piece of waxed paper and squeezing it around the hub and working it back and forth. For the outer hub, I'd try a cotton q-tip.

The idea is to crush the graphite into a shiny, silvery film that clings to the plastic.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:54 pm

Oh wow....I need to try that. Good information there. I put the wheels and axles in a zip lock bag with a good bit of graphite and toss all of that around a good bit, making sure to rub the axles in the graphite real good.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:45 pm

So my theory of a thin coat of nail polish with graphite treatment is a rookie mistake?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:20 pm

ZebsRacing wrote:So my theory of a thin coat of nail polish with graphite treatment is a rookie mistake?
The only place I've ever used nail polish is on the side of the car body, where the wheel hub wold rub against it.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:26 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
ZebsRacing wrote:So my theory of a thin coat of nail polish with graphite treatment is a rookie mistake?
The only place I've ever used nail polish is on the side of the car body, where the wheel hub wold rub against it.
Is that better than not painting and just sanding?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:52 pm

Another question......when trying to dremmel out some additional wood from the car body during testing, I accidentally dremmeled across a wheel (yes, should have taken them off before doing it, but I was pressed for time). It left a mark, but it's not terrible and not very deep. How badly will it affect the car?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:59 pm

S1C EM wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
The only place I've ever used nail polish is on the side of the car body, where the wheel hub wold rub against it.
Is that better than not painting and just sanding?
For a graphite car, honestly, I usually just leave the wood bare, sand it smooth and burnish graphite into the wood. For oil, having a slick coating is more important.
S1C EM wrote: Another question......when trying to dremmel out some additional wood from the car body during testing, I accidentally dremmeled across a wheel (yes, should have taken them off before doing it, but I was pressed for time). It left a mark, but it's not terrible and not very deep. How badly will it affect the car?
Where on the wheel is the mark? If it's on the tread, I'd be concerned. Try rolling it and listen to hear if there's any noise when the mark goes under. If so, you may want to replace that wheel. Another option might be to mount the wheel on a mandrel and try to polish it out with fine grit sandpaper...but you don't want to risk making the wheel too small, either.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:09 pm

Yeah, the mark is on the tread. I already fine sanded it, but it's still there. When we tested the car, it was fast, but had a death wobble. Never could figure out why or get it out. Wondering if this could have been why. Only showed up in the transition point when it went into the flat. Car was still running mid to high 2.6s and that was with me sticking putty weight all over the underside trying to get the weight up. I've since gotten all the weight properly installed. Hoping the new axles will get us down on the time a bit, but worried about that wheel.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:58 pm

S1C EM wrote:Yeah, the mark is on the tread. I already fine sanded it, but it's still there. When we tested the car, it was fast, but had a death wobble. Never could figure out why or get it out. Wondering if this could have been why. Only showed up in the transition point when it went into the flat. Car was still running mid to high 2.6s and that was with me sticking putty weight all over the underside trying to get the weight up. I've since gotten all the weight properly installed. Hoping the new axles will get us down on the time a bit, but worried about that wheel.
The waggles can be caused by alignment issues. Have you checked your rear axles? Also, if your car is aligned to rail ride, make sure you've got enough steer on the DFW. The more aggressively weighted the car is, the more likely it is to fall prey to the shimmies.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by gpraceman » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:09 pm

You could move the damaged wheel so it is the raised one.


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