Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

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S1C EM
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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:18 pm

We're not allowed to have a raised wheel and also cannot rail ride. Car is weighted mostly to the back with a decent amount just forward of the rear axle. Is there a "best spot" for the damaged wheel in this scenario?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by gpraceman » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:28 pm

You can make one of the front wheels barely touch the track and use the damaged wheel for that one. Definitely do not use it for one of the rear wheels. It would be better to just get a new wheel, if you can.


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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:55 pm

2.6 for a graphite car? Geez I thought my times were decent, must be doing something wrong, im trying to have my tiger do most of the work, explaing the polishing part is a little coomplicated for a young tiger. Anyways, I decided to take the axels to the lathe and run some grooves in them, also got this stuff coming tomorrow for a [no advertising for this vendor] that is like a superfast lube.. Anyone have any experiance with the stuff?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:05 pm

Are mid to high 2.6s good? I wasn't the only car running them. Just the only one with a death wobble.....lol. I figure if I can get that out, it's a fast car.

Is the lube you're talking about wet? I don't know much about that since we can't run anything but dry. But then again, I'm new to all of this. Been a good 28 years since I was a scout myself and I did pretty well then. Learning a lot of good stuff now, though.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:37 pm

I hear ya, from what I hear is its a wet application that goes dry.
But it says no need for graphite, so I dont know which one will give an edge. It will be a gametime decision.

Anyways. The stock division at worlds was running 3 seconds, now as speedster said in a different post, it seems to mean nothing unless you are running identical type and length track...

So for me, I cannot analyze any numbers as I have no idea the track setup at my sons district race



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:23 am

Whatever lube you posted is from a vendor that sells pre-built cars, so the automated removal system won't permit the vendor name being displayed here.

If you can tell me the name of the product, I can comment on what I know of it.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:37 am

Vitamin K wrote:Whatever lube you posted is from a vendor that sells pre-built cars, so the automated removal system won't permit the vendor name being displayed here.

If you can tell me the name of the product, I can comment on what I know of it.
I'm gonna guess Krytox.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:36 pm

"Hater Sauce"



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:51 pm

ZebsRacing wrote:"Hater Sauce"
Ah, okay, "Hater Sauce" is Krytox with a proprietary additive that the seller claims makes it faster than regular Krytox.

Either way, Krytox is NOT a dry lube. It is wet all of the time. It does not dry by race time. If you run a car with Krytox and then remove the wheel, you will still see the droplets inside of the wheel bore.

Krytox is an excellent lubricant, but if you think you can run it in a "dry lubricant only" race, you're fooling yourself, or buying some extremely bad logic.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:59 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
ZebsRacing wrote:"Hater Sauce"
Ah, okay, "Hater Sauce" is Krytox with a proprietary additive that the seller claims makes it faster than regular Krytox.

Either way, Krytox is NOT a dry lube. It is wet all of the time. It does not dry by race time. If you run a car with Krytox and then remove the wheel, you will still see the droplets inside of the wheel bore.

Krytox is an excellent lubricant, but if you think you can run it in a "dry lubricant only" race, you're fooling yourself, or buying some extremely bad logic.

I'm a little new to this, but imma call BS on that mess right now. More than likely, that's just some guy pushing the next "snake oil".

That said, there's a guy with axles on eBay that claim they are "sealed" with a special "Krytox solvent" that evaporates after application. Given something else I bought from the guy, I figure those claims are junk, too.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:06 pm

S1C EM wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
Ah, okay, "Hater Sauce" is Krytox with a proprietary additive that the seller claims makes it faster than regular Krytox.

Either way, Krytox is NOT a dry lube. It is wet all of the time. It does not dry by race time. If you run a car with Krytox and then remove the wheel, you will still see the droplets inside of the wheel bore.

Krytox is an excellent lubricant, but if you think you can run it in a "dry lubricant only" race, you're fooling yourself, or buying some extremely bad logic.

I'm a little new to this, but imma call BS on that mess right now. More than likely, that's just some guy pushing the next "snake oil".

That said, there's a guy with axles on eBay that claim they are "sealed" with a special "Krytox solvent" that evaporates after application. Given something else I bought from the guy, I figure those claims are junk, too.
Lots of league racers run the "Hater Sauce" and do very well with it.

Is it as fast as the manufacturer claims it is? I have no way to say yea or nay, having no real testing data.

I will say that it seems that Krytox GPL 100 (which is the lowest viscosity sold by DuPont) is actually a bit more viscous than is ideal for a Pinewood Derby racer, and there has been a long history of "cutting" oil with various substances to make it thinner and faster. I would not be surprised if "Hater Sauce" was actually faster than unmodified Krytox. I just have no way of telling you how much faster it actually is.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:08 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
S1C EM wrote:

I'm a little new to this, but imma call BS on that mess right now. More than likely, that's just some guy pushing the next "snake oil".

That said, there's a guy with axles on eBay that claim they are "sealed" with a special "Krytox solvent" that evaporates after application. Given something else I bought from the guy, I figure those claims are junk, too.
Lots of league racers run the "Hater Sauce" and do very well with it.

Is it as fast as the manufacturer claims it is? I have no way to say yea or nay, having no real testing data.

I will say that it seems that Krytox GPL 100 (which is the lowest viscosity sold by DuPont) is actually a bit more viscous than is ideal for a Pinewood Derby racer, and there has been a long history of "cutting" oil with various substances to make it thinner and faster. I would not be surprised if "Hater Sauce" was actually faster than unmodified Krytox. I just have no way of telling you how much faster it actually is.
I feel like the difference would be nominal, really. Not saying it doesn't exist. Just not sure it's worth whatever the markup is. I could be wrong, though.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:14 pm

S1C EM wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
Lots of league racers run the "Hater Sauce" and do very well with it.

Is it as fast as the manufacturer claims it is? I have no way to say yea or nay, having no real testing data.

I will say that it seems that Krytox GPL 100 (which is the lowest viscosity sold by DuPont) is actually a bit more viscous than is ideal for a Pinewood Derby racer, and there has been a long history of "cutting" oil with various substances to make it thinner and faster. I would not be surprised if "Hater Sauce" was actually faster than unmodified Krytox. I just have no way of telling you how much faster it actually is.
I feel like the difference would be nominal, really. Not saying it doesn't exist. Just not sure it's worth whatever the markup is. I could be wrong, though.
It all depends.

Is it worth it to somebody like me? Heck no. I am as tightfisted a Pinewood Derby addict as you're ever likely to find.

However, in league racing, when you regularly have races decided by thousandths of seconds or even ten-thousandths of seconds...then, yeah...every possible edge is worth paying for.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:27 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
S1C EM wrote:
I feel like the difference would be nominal, really. Not saying it doesn't exist. Just not sure it's worth whatever the markup is. I could be wrong, though.
It all depends.

Is it worth it to somebody like me? Heck no. I am as tightfisted a Pinewood Derby addict as you're ever likely to find.

However, in league racing, when you regularly have races decided by thousandths of seconds or even ten-thousandths of seconds...then, yeah...every possible edge is worth paying for.
I get that. I guess I'm just not "there".....yet. ;)

For right now, if I can ensure my son has a good showing tomorrow, I'm happy. I already know a lot of things I will approach differently the next time around based on what I've learned this year. :bigups:



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:52 pm

I suppose thats why they call it "Hater Sauce"! Anyways.. for me, i wont be using it. Seems I should have found this board before purchasing such things. So my axels came out great with a wet pumice sanding and graphite barnishing all done on a lathe, I decided against the grooved axels I made becauae I dont want to get dinged, smart choice?
Next is alignment! Now thats a different story!



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