Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

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S1C EM
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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:58 pm

ZebsRacing wrote:I suppose thats why they call it "Hater Sauce"! Anyways.. for me, i wont be using it. Seems I should have found this board before purchasing such things. So my axels came out great with a wet pumice sanding and graphite barnishing all done on a lathe, I decided against the grooved axels I made becauae I dont want to get dinged, smart choice?
Next is alignment! Now thats a different story!
Well, the axles I ordered came in yesterday and there is a very minute groove right under the head. They aren't supposed to be grooved by the description. Here's hoping it's not an issue. The district rules, which the pack said our rules would be based on, didn't actually forbid any modification of the axle.

I'm going to try burnishing the wheel bores tonight, but how are you doing the axles? Before beginning, I'll be tossing everything together in a ziplock bag full of graphite.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:43 pm

For axles with graphite, I just:

- Deburr the axle (If using BSA axles)
- Chamfer the head slightly (if this ends up cutting a small groove under the head that's fine)
- Polish the axle with grits 600 - 3000 (If it's not a BSA axle, I skip 600 and go straight to 1000)
- Spray with Pledge if I'm going to bother with that

I don't try doing any kind of coating/burnishing the axle with graphite. I'm not sure how well it would work with metal.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Vitamin K wrote:For axles with graphite, I just:

- Deburr the axle (If using BSA axles)
- Chamfer the head slightly (if this ends up cutting a small groove under the head that's fine)
- Polish the axle with grits 600 - 3000 (If it's not a BSA axle, I skip 600 and go straight to 1000)
- Spray with Pledge if I'm going to bother with that

I don't try doing any kind of coating/burnishing the axle with graphite. I'm not sure how well it would work with metal.
Good info. Well, the axles I have should be fine then. They're BSA polished to 2000 grit, slightly tapered head and a small groove below the head. I'll just toss those in the graphite bag and burnish the wheel bore only. Sounds like I should be good. How much wheel spinning should I do before I run the car? I'm afraid during that break-in period that I might actually wear a lot of the graphite off, making the burnishing less effective.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:09 pm

S1C EM wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:For axles with graphite, I just:

- Deburr the axle (If using BSA axles)
- Chamfer the head slightly (if this ends up cutting a small groove under the head that's fine)
- Polish the axle with grits 600 - 3000 (If it's not a BSA axle, I skip 600 and go straight to 1000)
- Spray with Pledge if I'm going to bother with that

I don't try doing any kind of coating/burnishing the axle with graphite. I'm not sure how well it would work with metal.
Good info. Well, the axles I have should be fine then. They're BSA polished to 2000 grit, slightly tapered head and a small groove below the head. I'll just toss those in the graphite bag and burnish the wheel bore only. Sounds like I should be good. How much wheel spinning should I do before I run the car? I'm afraid during that break-in period that I might actually wear a lot of the graphite off, making the burnishing less effective.
Heh, I don't really have a good metric here. I guess I give them 2-3 good finger-spins as I add the graphite to make sure that it's worked in there well. I will add graphite from both sides, btw...under the axle head and then in the gap between wheel and body.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:12 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
S1C EM wrote:Heh, I don't really have a good metric here. I guess I give them 2-3 good finger-spins as I add the graphite to make sure that it's worked in there well. I will add graphite from both sides, btw...under the axle head and then in the gap between wheel and body.
Perfect! I appreciate that. That was my plan, but your thoughts make me feel much better about it.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by ZebsRacing » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:43 pm

S1C EM wrote:
ZebsRacing wrote:I suppose thats why they call it "Hater Sauce"! Anyways.. for me, i wont be using it. Seems I should have found this board before purchasing such things. So my axels came out great with a wet pumice sanding and graphite barnishing all done on a lathe, I decided against the grooved axels I made becauae I dont want to get dinged, smart choice?
Next is alignment! Now thats a different story!
Well, the axles I ordered came in yesterday and there is a very minute groove right under the head. They aren't supposed to be grooved by the description. Here's hoping it's not an issue. The district rules, which the pack said our rules would be based on, didn't actually forbid any modification of the axle.

I'm going to try burnishing the wheel bores tonight, but how are you doing the axles? Before beginning, I'll be tossing everything together in a ziplock bag full of graphite.
Did the axels by blasting the graphite into the axels with a "beadblasting" booth, the theory is to "impact" the graphite into the metal but we will see how it goes.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:48 pm

ZebsRacing wrote:
S1C EM wrote:Did the axels by blasting the graphite into the axels with a "beadblasting" booth, the theory is to "impact" the graphite into the metal but we will see how it goes.
Interesting. I usually pour out graphite on a paper plate and rub each wheel's inner hub in it to get a nice, shiny coat of graphite there; rub some in with a q-tip on the outer hub; and roll the treads through it to get the same coating there. It seems to work, so when I have the axles in the ziplock, I make sure to let them drop to one corner of the bag with the graphite and roll the axle around with two fingers, mashing the graphite in as I roll it. How effective do you think that is?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Speedster » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:45 pm

That might be somewhat effective. Let me share with you Doc Jobe's technique. Make a little stand and put a "V" groove at the top. I put a strip of clean handkerchief to cover the "V" groove. Put some graphite in the groove. Put the nail in a Pin Vice and turn the nail SLOWLY around and around. That's it. You have put a film of graphite on the nail. You won't be able to see it but it will be there. That's per Dr. John Jobe, Author of the Big Green Book, The Physics of the Pinewood Derby. I'd wipe the nail with 91% alcohol (Walmart) before applying the graphite.
Some rules allow graphite on the hub and bore only. Even if your rules allow graphite on the running surface, I'm not so sure it's wise to put it there. The wheels need to get traction, especially if your rail riding. You might want to check out the "Search" function and see what others have to say.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:30 pm

Thanks, Speedster. Is the alcohol wiping just for the purpose of cleaning the nail surface completely?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Speedster » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:35 pm

Yep...



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by S1C EM » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:53 pm

Speedster wrote:Yep...

:thumbup:



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Crazylegsiraq » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:03 pm

So after reading this and not having liquid glass readily available, what graphite is everyone's favorite? I'm probably gonna shy away from the hobby line stuff I've read and heard is garbage. But if I'm gonna have polished axles and bores(may try waxing as well), who's got the a graphite tip or suggestion that's proven year in and out? Thanks pros!



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:32 pm

Crazylegsiraq wrote:So after reading this and not having liquid glass readily available, what graphite is everyone's favorite? I'm probably gonna shy away from the hobby line stuff I've read and heard is garbage. But if I'm gonna have polished axles and bores(may try waxing as well), who's got the a graphite tip or suggestion that's proven year in and out? Thanks pros!
I use Max-V for burnishing and Hob-E-Lube for the actual lubrication.

Have heard good things about Hodges' blend, too.



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Crazylegsiraq » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:28 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
Crazylegsiraq wrote:So after reading this and not having liquid glass readily available, what graphite is everyone's favorite? I'm probably gonna shy away from the hobby line stuff I've read and heard is garbage. But if I'm gonna have polished axles and bores(may try waxing as well), who's got the a graphite tip or suggestion that's proven year in and out? Thanks pros!
I use Max-V for burnishing and Hob-E-Lube for the actual lubrication.

Have heard good things about Hodges' blend, too.

May I ask why the two different graphites? Is one better than the other on bores than hubs?



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Re: Best axles for a "by the rules car"?

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:31 pm

Crazylegsiraq wrote:
Vitamin K wrote:
I use Max-V for burnishing and Hob-E-Lube for the actual lubrication.

Have heard good things about Hodges' blend, too.

May I ask why the two different graphites? Is one better than the other on bores than hubs?
The theory is this:

For burnishing, you want the fine stuff, that you can really grind into the crevices and gaps in the bore and give you a uniform, slick surface.

For lubrication, though, something with a graphite/moly blend (like Hob-e-Lube) actually performs a little better, because the larger moly particles act like ball bearings of a sort.

Mind you, this is just theory. I haven't done enough testing to confirm that it's really the fastest way out there.



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