The Judge timer

[Mike Parrish]

Has anyone ever experienced getting 1 set erroneous times for 1 run in the middle of a set of rounds from a Judge timer?

[Stan Pope]

Has anyone ever experienced getting 1 set erroneous times for 1 run in the middle of a set of rounds from a Judge timer?

Ouch! Well, no, but ...

What kind of audit trail and controls were in place to detect and document such behavior?

Could this have been one of the first hits from a new virus that affects PWD timing software? I heard that it has been quietly making the rounds. Aside from the usual propagation components, when it finds some specific PWD programs, then amends code to insert random changes in the reported times. Another variant reduces times for competitors whose names include the sequences "Mike" or "Michael" by 0.005 seconds and increases times by 0.005 for competitors whose names include the sequence "Stan". Is the antivirus software really catching _all_ of the intruders?

Or was this subtly modified hardware, triggered by a device similar to a automobile remote entry key, that adjusts times in one lane or across the track by a few hundredths or thousandths of a second? Across the track reductions, actuated whenever a particular car is racing, causes the relative times hold, but all are faster than normal. One particular car accumulates a meaningful advantage! Has anyone who is "unauthorized" had physical control over the hardware?

Hmmm...

Just for the record, I do not know of specific circumstances in which any of these have been done. All are easily within capability of current technology.

[Mike Parrish]

Another variant reduces times for competitors whose names include the sequences "Mike" or "Michael" by 0.005 seconds and increases times by 0.005 for competitors whose names include the sequence "Stan". Is the antivirus software really catching _all_ of the intruders?

I will definitely update my virus definitions!!

It was a surprise to see the faster times with this set of cars. In about 6 runs, our fairly equal cars ran in a range from 3.15-3.19, with one run in the middle of a set of 6 where all three of the cars ran 3.08/3.07.(?)

The computer I was using was VERY ram deficient

Maybe I will run more test sets viewing Hyper Terminal instead of the derby software to see if I can duplicate.

[gpraceman]

Has anyone ever experienced getting 1 set erroneous times for 1 run in the middle of a set of rounds from a Judge timer?

With The JUDGE, you do need to follow the correct sequence of operation as described in the owner's manual. Resetting the start gate at the wrong time or race management software sending commands during the timer's auto reset sequence can cause the timer to get confused and lead to times of 0.0001 or over 9 seconds. There is also information on their website about this.

[Mike Parrish]

Thanks for the info Randy.

I will dig up the paperwork tonight (I know it is somewhere in the church basement ) and look it over.

[Stan Pope]

It was a surprise to see the faster times with this set of cars. In about 6 runs, our fairly equal cars ran in a range from 3.15-3.19, with one run in the middle of a set of 6 where all three of the cars ran 3.08/3.07.(?)

This is strong circumstantial evidence of an error in timing. A 0.060 second swing is incredible! I don't recall the conversions, but doesn't that add up to more than a car length???

Suppose that something like this occurred during a competition. Would it be caught? Would all observers have confidence that an error had occurred? What would be done to mitigate effects?

On the virus ... I assumed that it was someone named Mike who was out to get me. So, please, do whatever is necessary to block that one!

[gpraceman]

This is strong circumstantial evidence of an error in timing. A 0.060 second swing is incredible! I don't recall the conversions, but doesn't that add up to more than a car length???

Something else to consider on time variation is the operation of the start gate. Unless it is a latch release design or solenoid tripped, there can be a lot of variation since a human has to open the start gate. As you know, humans are not very consistent and can sometimes open it slow and other times fast. If you open it too slow, the timer has already started ticking off the microseconds, but the cars are still being restricted by the start gate pegs.

[Mike Parrish]

[/quote]Suppose that something like this occurred during a competition.[/quote]

I am glad that this occurred while setting up for our adult build and race the same day event, or, as it is more affectionately know, "Pinewood Wars" race this Saturday.

We have until March to figure this out. That's when we run the Awana race for the children.

[gpraceman]

Make sure you don't start a quote with a [/quote] tag, but a [quote] tag. The tags with a slash are end tags and those without are start tags. You can also use the "quote" button on someone elses post to quickly start a reply with the proper quote tags.

[Mike Parrish]

Thank you Randy. I will remember that.

[Stan Pope]

Mike,

If you can, I'd really like to see the several questions that I raised in a couple different posts addressed. I think that they are crucial if you intend to use any timer in a real race.

Stan

[gpraceman]

Mike,

If you can, I'd really like to see the several questions that I raised in a couple different posts addressed. I think that they are crucial if you intend to use any timer in a real race.

Stan

Without searching through your 141 posts, which questions did you have? Yikes! You've almost passed me up.

[gpraceman]

Another issue that I have seen once with The JUDGE, is if you let the batteries run too low then you may have trouble getting it to report times. It is best to use an AC adapter or at least change out the batteries mid race.

It doesn't sound like this is your problem, but it is something to be aware of.

[Stan Pope]

Without searching through your 141 posts, which questions did you have? Yikes! You've almost passed me up.

Advantages of retirement!

Only the ones in this thread.
I've copied the entire thread and now will delete all but the questions.

What kind of audit trail and controls were in place to detect and document such behavior?

Suppose that something like this occurred during a competition. Would it be caught? Would all observers have confidence that an error had occurred? What would be done to mitigate effects?

[Cory]

It was a surprise to see the faster times with this set of cars. In about 6 runs, our fairly equal cars ran in a range from 3.15-3.19, with one run in the middle of a set of 6 where all three of the cars ran 3.08/3.07.(?)

This is strong circumstantial evidence of an error in timing. A 0.060 second swing is incredible! I don't recall the conversions, but doesn't that add up to more than a car length???

Suppose that something like this occurred during a competition. Would it be caught? Would all observers have confidence that an error had occurred? What would be done to mitigate effects?

On the virus ... I assumed that it was someone named Mike who was out to get me. So, please, do whatever is necessary to block that one!

Are you 100% certain that the track was not bothered in any way during your timing runs? A 60 millisecond delta can easily result from a very slight shift of the track (due to a bump or something), and you can just as easily get the reverse delta when the track shifts back to its normal (and in this case slower) state. I saw this sort of thing all the time when I did my timing experiments, and had to guard against it.

Two more questions:

1. Which is the more controlled system, your track setup, or the circuitry and logic inside The Judge?

2. Can you reproduce the problem?