Old Timer Questions

Commercial timing systems
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Cheap Engineer
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Old Timer Questions

Post by Cheap Engineer »

I'm trying to fix up a old timing system that my pack has been using for a long while. The computer that they were using was a 386 40Mhz running windows 3.1. So I got the software off of the old computer and onto a laptop. The software works fine but it is an old dos based system and I would like to upgrade to a new system while still being able to use the old timer. The system was manufactured by PJP industries, a google search turned up nothing by these guys, also when I opened up the timer electronics box all the chips had the part numbers sanded off. In the configuration menu of the old software it mentions that the sensor rate is 960 times per second and the current lane mask is 8F. The system looks like it just toggles bits for the start line and the four finish sensors. Is there a way to interface this to new software such as GrandPrix Race Manager? Any pointers?

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Carl
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by gpraceman »

I haven't heard of that manufacturer at all. What type of connector to the computer does it have? Some of the older timers used a joystick port (won't find those on modern computers).
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by Cheap Engineer »

It is serial based (RS232). That is why I was holding out some hope that I could make it work with some modern software. The old software works fine on the new computer, but it is rather clunky being dos based.

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Carl
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by gpraceman »

Cheap Engineer wrote:It is serial based (RS232). That is why I was holding out some hope that I could make it work with some modern software. The old software works fine on the new computer, but it is rather clunky being dos based.
If it is a serial timer, does the old software indicate the communications parameters (baud, parity, stop bits, and data bits)? If so, you can open up HyperTerminal and see if you can establish communications with the timer. If you get that far, let me know what the data looks like and I'd be able to tell you if it will be supported by GrandPrix Race Manager.
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by Cheap Engineer »

Ok, I ran a serial port monitor while I had the dos program running and it looks like it is reporting back a two digit hex number. It reports 80 when the start switch is up and the lane sensors are open. It looks like the first byte is the starting gate either 8 or 0, and the second byte is the lane switches. Lane 1 - 1, Lane 2 - 2, Lane 3 - 4, Lane 4 - 8. Any chance of making this work?

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Carl
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by gpraceman »

Cheap Engineer wrote:Any chance of making this work?
Doesn't look like it. That system only seems to report the status of the lane sensors and start gate, which means that the computer is expected to do all of the timing work. None of the software packages, commercial or otherwise, that I know of will do that part. With normal serial port timers, they do all of the timing and send the data to the computer as regular ASCII text. Race management software then just picks the times out for each lane.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by Stan Pope »

gpraceman wrote:
Cheap Engineer wrote:Any chance of making this work?
Doesn't look like it. That system only seems to report the status of the lane sensors and start gate, which means that the computer is expected to do all of the timing work. None of the software packages, commercial or otherwise, that I know of will do that part. With normal serial port timers, they do all of the timing and send the data to the computer as regular ASCII text. Race management software then just picks the times out for each lane.
Randy, if I recall correctly, DOS is certified for precision timing and Windows is not so certified. I think that this is because DOS doesn't have all the multiprogramming bells and whistles that Windows needs in order to function. Terry (terryep) reported this here on DT several years ago, I think.
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by gpraceman »

Stan Pope wrote:Randy, if I recall correctly, DOS is certified for precision timing and Windows is not so certified. I think that this is because DOS doesn't have all the multiprogramming bells and whistles that Windows needs in order to function. Terry (terryep) reported this here on DT several years ago, I think.
You can time with Windows on a parallel port, but you need to do so with a kernel mode DLL. One giving you more direct access to the individual inputs of the port (each input is on a different pin of the parallel port). With this old timer using the serial port, you are not getting direct access to the individual inputs. It is just transmitting that individual inputs have been triggered (all data comes in on one pin of the port). As far as I know with the serial port, there is no way around Windows getting in the way. If that is the case, then you will not be able to accurately time off of data reported on the serial port. Even if it was possible, it would require some custom software to be written to do the timing.

Personally, I think it is time to look at a getting or building a more modern serial port timer. Some systems are listed at the website below.

DIY - http://grandprix-race-central.com/modul ... page&pid=5
Commercial - http://grandprix-race-central.com/modul ... page&pid=6
Randy Lisano
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Re: Old Timer Questions

Post by Mr. Slick »

just a wild guess.... 960 samples = 9600 baud (10 bits x 960)

seems like it could be a simple character stream reporting device status . . . time for each character is constant - no need to worry about "timing" with windows. . . just read the characters... each character is 1/960 second (~0.001041667)


If it is sending out the characters constantly then it would be a matter of counting the character stream from the initial state switch(gate drop) to each of the lanes changing. Divide the number of characters by 960 gives seconds.

Serial data stream collected and oce the gate changes, start counting the characters. Report out the "1/960 seconds" as each of the lanes change.

possible output: (rounding to .001)

HEAT 1 START
LANE 1 4.375 (after 4200 characters)
LANE 2 4.401 (after 4225 characters)
LANE 3 4.427 (after 4250 characters)
LANE 4 4.437 (after 4260 characters)

(Gate CLOSED, increment heat counter)

HEAT 2 START
...
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