Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Show off photos of your cubmobiles, starting ramp and race course.
Teeeman
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Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:55 pm

More pics:

Terry


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Please note there were a lot of dangerous wrecks.
We managed to avoid wrecking all but 1 run when the other car collected us... usually (with the CG shifted rearward) our car pulled far enough ahead of the other car by ramp's end to about 10 feet out they missed us when they went out of control and wrecked.
One kid even flipped his car over top of him, he was slow to get up.
And car after car ran into the stops placed much too close to the finish line (some at nearly full speed with virtually ineffective brakes).
Our simple "standard" brake with a piece of blown out car tire stopped us 10 feet before the end barrier easily, every time.
Lining the sides and middle of the track with bails of hay would have solved a lot of problems.

Maybe next year... I volunteered to help if they'll let me.

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Pinewood Daddy » Mon May 02, 2005 7:12 am

Dang!! That looks like fun!!

Our street would be perfect for that race.

I don't think we (our Pack) could ever do it because of liability issues.

Pardon my ignorance, but why do the kids sit off center in the cars??



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Tue May 03, 2005 2:36 pm

We were the only car sitting off-center.

We simply were trying to apply "Pinewood" trickery... to some extent...

but our steering pivot on the front axle was only about 8 inches from the wheel (very non-centered).
The opposite front wheel was built 3/4" inches higher.
The goal was to prevent steering scrub in turns (the 2 front wheels fighting each other... perfect steering geometry would have the 2 front wheels at different angles, tracing different circles... most automotive steering designs get pretty close).

To keep load off the raised wheel (to keep the "tricycle in disguise" design from using the right front wheel) we offset the seat and weight box.

There was enough flex in the design that our right front often made contact with the ground, but the car drove smooth... much to my pleasant surprise... probably because even when it touched, there was not much weight on it as evidenced by the reduced width wear pattern on the wheel comparing to the other 3 wheels.

Terry


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TurtlePowered
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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by TurtlePowered » Tue May 03, 2005 4:09 pm

Pinewood Daddy wrote:Dang!! That looks like fun!!

Our street would be perfect for that race.

I don't think we (our Pack) could ever do it because of liability issues.

Pardon my ignorance, but why do the kids sit off center in the cars??
You don't have to run them down a ramp. You can just have fellow scouts push them.



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Wed May 04, 2005 7:06 am

TurtlePowered wrote:
Pinewood Daddy wrote:Dang!! That looks like fun!!

Our street would be perfect for that race.

I don't think we (our Pack) could ever do it because of liability issues.

Pardon my ignorance, but why do the kids sit off center in the cars??
You don't have to run them down a ramp. You can just have fellow scouts push them.

I have wondered about this (new to Cubmobile this year)... the "rules" we got from the handbook and Pack showed 2 different types of Cubmobile.
One was (I assume) a dedicated gravity-racer style, no pushbar.
The other was different in several ways, and incorporated a pushbar.

We decided the pushbar would be very handy in a lot of ways and incorporated it.

Do some Packs organize events where the race is actually to have some Scouts push the cars while others drive?

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by TurtlePowered » Wed May 04, 2005 8:07 am

Teeeman wrote:
TurtlePowered wrote: You don't have to run them down a ramp. You can just have fellow scouts push them.

I have wondered about this (new to Cubmobile this year)... the "rules" we got from the handbook and Pack showed 2 different types of Cubmobile.
One was (I assume) a dedicated gravity-racer style, no pushbar.
The other was different in several ways, and incorporated a pushbar.

We decided the pushbar would be very handy in a lot of ways and incorporated it.

Do some Packs organize events where the race is actually to have some Scouts push the cars while others drive?

Terry

Ours does. It's great fun to go around a racecourse too!



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Wed May 04, 2005 9:13 am

A race course that requires good steering would have been impossible for the largest majority of the cars that showed up to our race... most had severely restricted steering, I think a couple had none... they of course ran into the crowd...

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by TurtlePowered » Thu May 05, 2005 9:57 am

Teeeman wrote:A race course that requires good steering would have been impossible for the largest majority of the cars that showed up to our race... most had severely restricted steering, I think a couple had none... they of course ran into the crowd...

Terry
Our cubs made the car so their feet directly contacted the front axel giving them the ability to steer the car quite a bit. Biggest trick was to control the car with your feet instead of using the steering ropes.



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Fri May 06, 2005 10:06 am

That's exactly how our cars were... steered via feet.

However, the ability to control the cars was usually too tough for most kids (they'd lose control just as they left the starting ramp, they'd lean, and ironically if you push to upright your body you are usually steering yourself harder in the direction you don't want to be going... a self-eating watermelon of sorts... and voila, they wrecked!).

The countermeasure for this problem is our rules heavily suggested the steering blocks be moved not 1-1/2 inches from the 'mobile spine board (about a +/- 30 deg steering angle if you work the geometry) but rather, 1/2 inch... this restricts steering to about +/-13 degrees.

Some cars had even less than 13, I'm sure...


So a "road course" would be impossible for most.

I know I have bragged a bit too much, but the whole point of our steering was that we could keep articulate steering and still have control of our car.

It worked out pretty nicely.

I removed the steering stop on the car early this week, and it works fine without it (matter of fact, I doubt we ever made contact with it during the race).
I also removed the right front wheel and the car drives fine without it too :)

We actually built a "tricycle in disguise as a 4 wheeler" as my son loves to put it.

I wish we would do a push event as well. I think it would be more fun, and safer for the kids... although less competitive, but after the insane level of competitiveness we noticed at Pinewood district, I found Cubmobile a much welcome change of pace.

Our car could compete equally well in a road course event. Matter of fact, I could sharpen the steering easily by drilling 1 new hole on the front axle and swapping in a slightly different drag link. We could have 1 for road course, and 1 for drag racing... can be changed in about 3 minutes with a wrench, a socket, and a pair of pliers.

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by TurtlePowered » Fri May 06, 2005 10:36 am

Teeeman wrote:That's exactly how our cars were... steered via feet.

However, the ability to control the cars was usually too tough for most kids (they'd lose control just as they left the starting ramp, they'd lean, and ironically if you push to upright your body you are usually steering yourself harder in the direction you don't want to be going... a self-eating watermelon of sorts... and voila, they wrecked!).

Our car could compete equally well in a road course event. Matter of fact, I could sharpen the steering easily by drilling 1 new hole on the front axle and swapping in a slightly different drag link. We could have 1 for road course, and 1 for drag racing... can be changed in about 3 minutes with a wrench, a socket, and a pair of pliers.

Terry
So are you saying your car could do a road course but the majority of scouts could not? We found the scouts (even the Tigers) could do a pretty good job of streering, especially if the pushers did not try to run pell mell. We also had contest on who could push the car and have it coast the farthest, paint job, and most enthusiastic so all age groups could win something.



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Fri May 06, 2005 12:07 pm

Yes, I'm saying the majority of the cars that showed up at our event would not have sufficient steering to navigate any form of road course without modification. Is that more clear?

Most of the cars had severely limited steering. Those that did not would careen into the crowd or another car about 1/2 runs.

The cars could be driven successfully though... one gentleman at our race had an absolutely outstanding car for fit, finish, and workmanship. It was truly gorgeous!
Same car had several different kids of different ages make runs, the first 2 or 3 wrecked (steering issues).
It also seemed (as the day progressed) that the children with shorter legs could control the car more easily.
However, to prove the car could be controlled (and to simply see for himself if the car was the problem) the 6'3" gentleman rode it down.
He made a perfect run, not even twitchy, just a smooth, straight run.
So it can be done... even with legs 2X as long as the car is designed for.

The trick seemed to be making the cars where the KIDS could control them though (not an adult).

I believe our car would easily navigate a road course or a straight line successfully as it currently sits.

I believe if more sensitive steering were desired, by changing the linkage ratio on ours, you could tweak it at an event by a simple 3 minute pit-stop.

Make sense?

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Fri May 06, 2005 12:11 pm

I meant to ask: Did your event include both a road course and a ramp start drag race?

I'm curious to learn if cars that were successfully run on the road course (with unrestricted steering I am assuming) were also successful in coming down off a ramp of some form.

I believe if a car can be controlled well on a road course, the same car/Cub combo should be OK on a ramp.

I am trying to understand why our event was riddled with wrecks (almost every single pair of cars that went down the ramp had at least one or both end up in a wreck).



Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Fri May 06, 2005 12:46 pm

Do you have more details how your event was setup?

I would really like to propose for next year we add some of the categories you describe, they sound like a LOT of fun!

BTW, do you have a map of how your course was setup?
Did you use cones?

If the kids could drive it OK, I think it would be safer than the ramp event we had this year.

Thanks!

Terry


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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by TurtlePowered » Fri May 06, 2005 1:32 pm

Teeeman wrote:Do you have more details how your event was setup?

I would really like to propose for next year we add some of the categories you describe, they sound like a LOT of fun!

BTW, do you have a map of how your course was setup?
Did you use cones?

If the kids could drive it OK, I think it would be safer than the ramp event we had this year.

Thanks!

Terry
We used cones, gave around 10' opening for cars to go through. Didn't have much straightaways, more curves for drivers to steer around. We used one of the church parking lots cut in half. One half for course and one half for practice beforehand. Each car parked in pitstop when not in use. All kids wore bike helmets but don't recall anyone tipping. Of course sometimes the cones were knocked into but the kids tried to get things back on course so there wasn't a real problem. We seperated by den. Each den member got a chance the drive the car on the course with no other cars on it. Den members took turns pushing the car. We added times up, devided by the number of Den members to get a average time. Going down the ramp you probably got going faster than they would by pushing, maybe that caused the problem. Probably started up faster too.



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Re: Pics with Start Ramp and Racing

Post by Teeeman » Mon May 09, 2005 7:17 am

I am supposed to be on the "volunteer list" for next year... so if I can get an ear, I will propose the push event.

That actually sounds like a lot more fun to me than a down-ramp drag race :)


Thanks for the help!

Terry


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