What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

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sporty
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What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by sporty » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:02 am

What do you think about a standard set of rules for the Cub Scouts on the Cubmobile ?

Would you like to see consistent and same rules through out all packs ?

Perhaps a stock division and open division. But both having the same set of rules for that division ?

As Would it not be great to have a Cubmobile race, that the top winner went onto a regional or national race ?

With similarity of how a Pinewood Derby race winner goes onto district ?


This could only be achieved I feel buy a more consistent set of rules !


So many packs have a Cubmobile race, with rules varying enough that where a Cubmobile from one race, currently would not likely be eligible to race in another !

Who is in support of this ? You're thoughts, comments and feed back are needed to support this idea.


Would you favor a kit that you would have to buy ? versus just building it ?

A national kit ?

It would certainly help in creating a more consistent Cubmobile. With same design and wheels and specifications.

That could help lead to a regional or national race for the winners from the local packs.


Look forward to hearing your replies and responses.

Sincerely,

Sporty



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by Teeeman » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:21 pm

Our rules as is are pretty loose... we have had fun being creative where tighter rules might limit us heavily...

I know from the PWD discussions this is usually a heavily debated topic...

so many possible variations, I dunno if a single set of rules would ever be agreed to... if CMB is anything like PWD...


-Terry


"I dunno..." - Uncle Eddie, Christmas Vacation

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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:29 pm

I think a basic set of rules as set for a national race would be a great way to move forward to having these CM Races available for the boys on a more consistent basis.

And if they were formatted with the idea that they are also a basis for local Packs to Choose, say the complete set of rules for "Official Races" or a Class of a race, and then Only Sections of these Rules for their "Open" or Home-Built" class, well, you would have basics that would assist our Packs instead of "telling them" what they have to do...

Both these Race examples as below could be held on the same race day as was/is our intentions at our local events, regarding wanting a class for both home-built SBD's as well as getting affiliated with the official AASBD association and having official cars race and be able to move on to other races events. Example...

Official Class CM Races- Rules: A through Z Apply
(car built to specs from scratch or kit)

Local Home-built Class CM Races- Rules: A,B,C, H, N, P, R, Y, Apply Only
(car built to specs as per class rules, home-built cars or kits).

So, having the larger "general rules" for local Races to keep there fun as they choose by having an option to have a lighter side of racing if they want...thus, the official race and / or the "home-built race...which was made so much easier by the "National" set of rules available.

I know i was a bit repetitive here, but this is what I went up against when i started our local annual event...i had to surf the Internet and pic and choose parts and pieces of other packs race events and use their experience of what worked and what didn't...regarding the rules that made sense to us in our area and modifications, or not, to the Cubmobile itself as it was represented in the Bear Scout HandBook.

By the way, the more we got into it all, the more sense it made to keep with the original intent of the specs. on the page 207 of the scout manual...and the only reason we made three modifications to these specs. were because of safety and or common sense of basic structural strength...Thus, 1) The 6 inch wood blocks allowed at each end of the axles, 2) a triangular piece of thin plywood at the back axle to body for continuous stability, 3) and a less needed option, yet was approved due to the optimal place to store needed added weight to the race car...was two triangular panels to close in the seats back-rest supports (In our races we called out for a max. weight of car and driver in the second year so as to keep it fare...the first year, the bigest kids won...(bullys!) just kidding! LOL!)
Hope this helps anyone...i can share some of 2006 and 2005's pictures if they'd like? Just let me know!? Shipnson@msn.com

[moderator cut - no advertising in this forum. Use the Derby Products and Services forum]



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by Smell of pine » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:46 pm

i would like to see our local race expand to a district level. Right now if "Johnny" wins the pack race, that's it. There is no advancement. I'd like to see the possibility to advance to at least the next level of racing. So in that respect, if we could get more packs involved, a more standard set of rules would be good so all packs would be equal. I hate to squash creativity though. Rule for safety, but let's see some innovation.



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:30 pm

Our last two seasons were District wide, with 20 some odd packs and troops invited to the event...although notice went out late, with only a month to let all know it was ago with the event.

2005 was registered as a district event, yet wasn't enough time to give all the packs and troops enough of a notice to really compete...that is a real biggie!
and you can't just tell the scout leaders, 'cause their so busy (and some don't care about this subject), so it's best to go to every pack and troop in the district and do a three minute presentation of it all and hand out flyers!

We had between 25 - 35 registered racers ...not sure if that was just the Cubmobile classes or with our "home-built" Soap Box Derby class included...?

If you'd like, i could send you a copy of what worked out to be a good set of rules for us, and covered most all the issues that i saw come up in my searches regarding the other packs past experiences... Let me know if your interested.



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by sporty » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:26 pm

It would be very nice to see The local Cubmobile Races go onto a district Race.

Our local pack Race. Has about 30 to 60 Racers. It does very from year to year.

The most we ever has was like 65.

Sporty



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:05 pm

That's a lot of Cubmobiles!!



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:30 pm

If anyone would like to see our local rules, just send me their mailing address to the email address above, and i'd be happy to send it out us mail...it will also have 2. our local racer entry sheet (which doubled as a date and location notification page for the puplic), 3. Sponsor Sheet/Pledge form (we used this sheet to hunt up local company sponsors and raised $2,500. for our budget this year...and only started a few weeks before race day!), 4. and our Home Depot "Quote Form" which listed all the hardware with it's part number and price, (so if anyone was missing a part we didn't have to chase it down for them, and told them that any part that was missing out of their "Kit" that was over a Dollar that we would reimbursed them if had a receipt...This was a winning deal breaker to handle the ocational Opps, as it kept things rolling forward with the Committee, and gave the parent an answer to "...what do i do? i don't have one of the bolts..." or one washer... ...Sometimes people just need a bit of direction! Any way, the "hardware Quote" was also helpful to those that planned on building their own Cubmobile from scratch, as a few of the smart ones took a good look at the contents and realized that all the work had actually been done for them...! Simple and basic...

OH! and our local Home Depot was kind enough to group all the hardware pieces together for us this year! i gave them a copy of the quote, and asked them for 25 times what was on the list, and the gal recognized me from the year before and asked if i would like them to package them up for me indivigually,,, (!) i said YES! They even were able to do it for me cheaper 'cause they used bulk boxes to fill the order which was at a lower overall cost! Simply Amazing!
Maybe "Sporty" could get one in the mail and with his knowledge could post this info. in the proper place for anyone interested (?).



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by sporty » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:50 pm

Sounds like alot of hard work and planning went into you're Cubmobile event.

And welcome to the fourm Shipnson !

We are glad to have you and new and refreshing idea's and input are very welcome and needed.

I spent some time last year contacting the National office. I also mailed them information. In hopes of a national set of rules and better instructions and plans.

I am hoping my added input will be used. I always recommend Someone who has spent alot of time and have plenty of info to Contact the National office. Especially to recommend and in hopes of a Cubmobile becoming a more consistant format and Local winner going on to compete in a District Race.

Yet I also still like the open class and feel their should still be one.

Sporty



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:16 pm

Thanks! I feel that as i discover others as myself, that i'm more and more a bigger part of a whole...

The BSA National office? Or the AASBD national office? wasn't sure (?).

I just talked today with one of our Pack members...a den leader a few years behind me, so he will have interests in the younger scouts continuing with the cubmobiles before he ,moves on to boy scouts...
...Whats left of our district CM committee is going to be calling for this seasons first meeting, and i'll be turning over my position...All that i'll be is a question and answer man if they need help on anything... and we did work hard to get it all going, so i do hope it continues...



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by Smell of pine » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:27 pm

This year we are throwing out the invitation to several other packs to come run with us at our local race. No other pack in the area has done a cubmobile race. Baby steps, but if we can gain more interest from other packs, it may evolve into a district wide race(s). We have a pretty nice set of ramps that work well, and we could provide the plans for other packs to make their own ramps.

I'm not putting down this site, but you can see the difference in participation and interest between the Pinewood Derby cars and discussion, and the Cubmobile discussion.



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:31 pm

All you might have to do to go District is ask your local Scout Executive to invite the district Packs and Troops, if the Boy Scouts don't race, ask them to be involved it the event ...run the show!

Anyway, thats how ours got started, in reference to getting coverage for insurance through the bsa umbrella...
How is your event insured? The Pack itself holds the event with you all...yet i'm understanding, and that might just be our area... Oh, ya know what! i forgot...we shut down a city street (long hill) and take it over... ...thats why we have to have the insurance...so as to meet the county requirements... ...anyway, a little more trivia there... LOL!



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by sporty » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:18 am

The National office out of Texas,

Cub Scout Division.

Last Year, I did have some communication with A gentleman there. About Better rules and Safety in regards to the Cubmobile.

In hopes they woudl update them and put them in the Cub Scout Manual.


The Pack that I was involved in, Carried Insurance for the pack. So the event was covered. But we use a local malls Parking lot. It's big enough for the event.

I would agree, that the Cubmobile area of the forum does not see as much interest as the PineWood Derby sections.

But it does pick up during the Summer months, when alot of packs are holding there Cubmobile races.

Also If you notice in the tips Posting that I started, There is a large number of viewers.

I think many come and read the information in that particular posting. But often do not post.

It's about getting the word out. At the Monthly meanings at round table. It's also would be nice to see Regional and National more advertising and fliers on the Cubmobile.

Like they have done for the Cubmobile. Perhaps Some of the Companies that advertise in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout fliers can incorporate there Ad's with a Cubmobile like they have with the Pinewood Derby. Like with the Dremel Ad's and local store contests.

Alot of packs out there still do not know what a Cubmobile is or do not hold a race or event.

Since BSA, I would asume does make a little off all the Pinewood Derby Kits, hince forth the more advertising and interest for them to do that.

Perhaps they can find a way to also do that with the Cubmobile, so that it can benefit them more also. As a way to inspire more Cubmobile events and regional races.

Sporty



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by shipnson » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:44 pm

YES! I had asked about getting ahold of the BSA Dept. that handles the Production of the Pine Wood Derby's, and their source of the "kits"...Yet, that was two years ago, and i have found that if i don't press everything to get them (or anyone that's plate is full already) to get back with me then i don't hear from anyone... ...and currently i am caring for my mother as well as single parenting, plus den leader and trying to keep some quality about things...so just don't have the extra energy to pursue it...But Wanted to see about BSA putting out a simple Pre-drilled and cut Wood Kit ( LIKE The Ones I have) that is simply shrink wrapped with the list of hardware that could be filled at Home Depot, and the source of Comtech for wheels if they choose, but could use any...off of their old wagon like the old days if they wanted...

Simply put, Pre-Cut and Drilled Wood Kit- with Source Info. .

With our local method of making a large supply of the kits for our local parents working so well (this was my vacation time and money),
That although my son and i will be moving onto Boy Scouts and the Soap Box Derby, i felt it a shame to just let all that we had developed fall to the wind, so presently passing on the Cubmobile Committee to a Younger Scouts able Dad (and den leader) and the District Members that choose to hold up the interest... [moderator cut - no advertising in this forum]. In thinking with the timing and all, the season as you mentioned has a lot to do with it...so if the doors not being knocked down, i will keep searching ways to get the word out, so that more who wish to can participate... even the ones whom aren't able to build their own from scratch.

In the thought of what you said on the interest and of it being profitable to bsa to make available such a kit... i agree and hope it comes about, [moderator cut - no advertising in this forum]
This would help to do the same thing we are all after...if we got the kits as we do the pine wood derby kits.
Maybe the Key is to simplify the "kits"? ...Basic pre-cut/drilled w. source of wheels and hardware...i can see it in a nice trim box in the corner of our local BSA store now...? probably best way (?).
Sorry for thinking out loud...and repetitive...just thinking as i go...LOL!

Like our races! flying by the seat of our pants!

Well, got yard work to do...70% out! Talk soon!



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Re: What do you think ? rules / regs/ building

Post by TRE-357 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:39 pm

To Shipnson, thanks for the offer to share your information and home depot list. I just sent an e-mail.

My cub scout pack here in Northern IL, is looking into starting Cubmobile racing and I may just sign you to run it. Our street would make a perfect track. Also my son and I enjoy racing of any type. Seems like a natural fit.

Cheers



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