Sibling racing - liability

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xray328
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Sibling racing - liability

Post by xray328 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:55 pm

We'd like to let siblings (non-scouts) race. There was some concern about liability though since our insurance doesn't cover them. Has anyone come up with a liability release that would prevent us from being sued? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!



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ohiofitter
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by ohiofitter » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:14 pm

I'm sorry but I'm lost.....................If your den holds a pwd race in a church,school.or any other building why would you need insurance....we have never had this To me that makes no sense..................Then the people who attend the race would be under the liability as well.......So how does this come into play



xray328
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by xray328 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:25 pm

Were holding a cubmobile race, outside, down a hill.

If the boys get hurt, our insurance covers us. If the siblings get hurt (racing the cars) it doesn't.



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sporty
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by sporty » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:38 pm

My thoughts on this -

I would likely talk about this in the pack meeting to the parents.

To see what there response is. The insurance might be pretty costly and I think I recall a limited budget you had mentioned before.

If the parents are willing to sign a waiver and the pack require more stricter safety gear.

Like arm pads, knee and elbow pads, aside from the helmet and seat belt.

For sure a floor board and safety seat sides.

But also you could also limit the length of the race and also the speed of the race. If the official race is fast.

But a new pack to cubmobile may want to do some of things for everyone for there first time with a cubmobile.

I know that kids under the age of 6 seem to have a much harder time with steering and stopping.

A safety test session might be in order also for them.

You might even think of having the parent push the car, setting something up like the pushmobile plans out there.

Then the parent would be involved and might be less likely to take issue in case of a tip over, injury or accident of any type.

This does get a bit outside my ability to provide tips and suggestions. Especially legal stuff.

In soap box derby racing, even though they have insurance. we are still required to sign a waiver of liability.

I think this is a great idea though, I have always felt non scout family members should be allowed to be involved.

While it does not compare to a open class pinewood derby race. The same idea is at play here.

Sporty



xray328
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by xray328 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:52 pm

Yeah, I'd like to get as much of the family involved as possible. Our 6y/o daughter's tired of going to her big brothers activities and sitting there bored all day.

For those of you not aware, we're doing this a little different than most others. We have 85 boys in our pack and each den is building a car (cars are being provided as kits, paid for by the pack). They are racing in the morning. Then we're gonna let the siblings race those same cars in the afternoon.

The hill we're gonna race on is a 3% grade for 900 feet.

We put our family car in neutral and coasted to the end. We got up to 18 mph. Do you think these cars will run faster or slower?

We'll shorten the track length for the younger siblings (and the tigers).

No one under 5 races.



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sporty
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by sporty » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:10 pm

Wow - 900 feet !!!

I would not recommend this distance.

The cub scout book guidelines is 150 feet.

most soap box derby racers are around 600-700 feet. Thats a long race for a car with rope steering.

The front cross member would need to be pretty stiff. Without pushings, the wood will also compress afet a few races and loosen up.

loose steering is like the #1 issue for accidents in cubmobile races.

18 miles per hour is also pretty fast for a cubmobile in my view.

That's what many soap box derby cars race at. Cars designs allot better.


I think I would suggest a test run with a child or a small mom.

6 to 12 miles per hour is what I recommend for a safe operating range. I lean towards the 6 miles per hour.

If a cubmobile has a wheel or axle failure at 18 miles per hour, I would almost get that the child will also then over steer the car, and cause a side flip of the car.

I have seen this. So it does happen.

I wish I could convey a different suggestion. but for the first time racing a cubmobile. you may want to do some testing.

I think I would be surprised with tigers or bears, being able to handle that speed and distance safely.

We like to practice allot and in that process the kids start to learn how to drive the cubmobile and handle it.

The first few times for my youngest, ended up going into the ditch and hitting a tree. This was at speeds around 5 miles per hour and 200 feet.

Which he only made about 50 feet of the track. He did this a two or three times, only hit the tree once.

But he had a tendancy to freeze and not use the brake during this time also. The parents yelling to hit the brake, including me, also seems to cause him to freeze.

I dont want to sound overly right wing, but want to ensure the reality of what can happen with those speeds and distance. Especially with first time racers of the cubmobile. Then there is the build process and how that will be done.

hope this helps

Sporty



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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by dna1990 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:19 am

Curious how this turned out XRay? I didn't get in on the conversation before, but I would agree with Sporty that the cubmobiles I have seen made - are not up to doing those type of speeds or distances.

Did they work out, or did you make some changes to the race layout?



xray328
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Re: Sibling racing - liability

Post by xray328 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:15 pm

The race is May 3rd. We moved it to the American Legion parking lot due to our tire issue. They have a nice sealed parking lot that's a lot smoother. So that should bring us in closer to the 125 foot mark. We have 125 people attending so far. 50 scouts, 25 siblings and 50 parents. We plan on selling food and ebaying the tires to get the comtech wheels for the fall and moving it to an actual hill. We used metal bushings in the wood for both the front cross member and the frame to keep the steering tight. We're also going to have kids build their own cars for the fall event. We have a lawyer in the pack drafting a liability release for the siblings. I'll post pictures all over here after the race. We had a practice setup last Saturday but of course it rained and we had to cancel. Our new found obsession is the local soapbox derby races.



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