Rules to go by

[nosam116]

My question is generated out of curiosity and if it's been asked before, I apologize.

Have the "extra" rules that my pack and many others on attempts to deter parents from building the "elite car" taken away from the innocents of scouts and Pinewood Derby?

I'm considering suggesting to my pack and the district races, which I'm both involved with, that we simply use the rules in the box and keep it simple. Last year there were so many rules and amendments, that it was confusing to me (who printed them) and more so to some young scouts.

I'd be interested in hearing what some of you think about the KISS approach?

Thanks in advance!

[gpraceman]

Personally, I feel that the rules from the box are woefully insufficient and if that is all that you go by, then you are bound to have more problems. While having extra rules and expanded rules may make things more complex, the intention should be to reasonably level the playing field for all racers. Without them, you are likely to end up with some pretty uneven competition and hurt feelings.

[nosam116]

Here's our rules from this past year. Would you change or add anything?
Thanks for the advice.


PINEWOOD DERBY RULES 2005
1. All cars must pass inspection by the official inspection committee before it may compete. If, at registration, a car does not pass inspection, the owner will be informed of the reason for failure, and will be given time within the official weigh-in time period to make the adjustment.
After final approval, cars will not be reinspected unless the car is damaged in handling or in a race, at which time the owner will be permitted five minutes or until the next heat the car is scheduled to race in, whichever is greater, to work on the car in the pit area with the supervision of a race committee member. If the car is not ready for its next scheduled heat, it loses the heat.
The inspection points are as follows:
a. The car must have been made during the current scouting year (the year in which the derby is held.)
b. The width of the car shall not exceed 2 3/4 inches.
c. The length of the car shall not exceed 7 inches.
d. The weight of the car shall not exceed 5 ounces.
e. The width between wheels should be 1 3/4 inches. The bottom clearance between the car and track should be at least 3/8 of an inch.
f. Only official Cub Scout Grand Prix Pinewood Derby wheels and axles are permitted, and pre-cut axle slots must be used. Drop of glue on axles is premitted for securing them.
g. Wheel bearings, washers and bushings are prohibited.
h. The car shall not ride on any kind or type of springs.
i. The car must be freewheeling with no starting devices.
j. No loose materials of any kind (such as lead shot) are allowed in the car.
k. Only graphite lubricant is permitted.
l. Any details added must be within length, width and weight limits.
m. The weight shown on the official race scale is final.

2. No one other than race committee members/volunteers may be within the barrier or in the pit area during the derby. Everyone else must remain behind the barrier. This is a safety requirement not only for the Cub Scout, but also for the track, equipment and Pinewood Derby cars.

3. The starter will make sure the cars are on the track properly and then will start the race.

4. An electronic timer will be used, with each car's slowest time subtracted, prior to advancing to next round.

5. If a car leaves the track, runs out of its lane, interferes with another car, loses an axle, etc., the heat will be rerun. If the same car gets into trouble on the second run, the contestant is disqualified and automatically loses that race. If, on the second run, another car is interfered with, the heat will be run a third time but without the disqualified car.

6. The Pack Committee reserves the right to govern on anything not covered in these rules.
———
GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP AND BEHAVIOR IS EXPECTED
Race officials may ask anyone not following this rule to leave

[Darin McGrew]

I'm a big fan of the KISS approach. Our rules cover the basics: meet the weight limit, use the kit and only the kit, fit the track. It might not be enough for a regional derby, but for our local derby where everyone knows everyone else, they're enough.

[Cory]

Welcome to DerbyTalk!

6. The Pack Committee reserves the right to govern on anything not covered in these rules.

This one scares me a little.

To "govern on something not covered" is to create a new rule, and I don't think any committee should be empowered to do that after the rules are published. I would liken it to you legally parking your car, then someone installs a "No Parking" sign next to it, and then writes you a ticket.

We usually say that the committee is responsible for interpreting rules, and that any ruling they make is final.

[nosam116]

We usually say that the committee is responsible for interpreting rules, and that any ruling they make is final.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Darin McGrew]

Here's our rules from this past year. Would you change or add anything?

I would separate the rules for building a car from the explanation of the race method, crowd control, and other derby night logistics.

k. Only graphite lubricant is permitted.

Does it really matter if someone uses some other lubricant?

l. Any details added must be within length, width and weight limits.

You might want to mention the maximum height that will fit under your finish gate. Our gate is about 6" high, so we advertise a height limit of 5.5".

[Mike Doyle]

I think a simpler approach is better, in fact if too much detail is added it has the opposite effect of restriction. That's seems counter-intuitive but consider the greatest set of rules ever written, The Ten Commandments. There are only ten of them!

A couple of other points to ponder- if you provide a highly detailed set of rules with specific restrictions then anything not expressly restricted is allowed right? Guess who get's to break the bad news, you do. What effect does restriction have on innovation? Tha's another whole can of worms.

The last point I'll make on overly restrictive and/or detailed rules (I promise)- what intention is behind their creation? What do you want participants to say about your Derby? They had to face a committe or pour over several pages of rules to figure out how to build their car? I'd rather have them say they had an enjoyable experience and focused on the time with their children instead of reviewing their compliance with an intricate set of restrictions.

For the record our Pack and District use the basic kit rules with the only exception being the "stock axle slots must be used".

[nosam116]

Mike,
Thank you for the words. You kind of backed what I've been thinking.

By the way, as for the board rankings, I'd like to be a pinhead (sic) someday!

[Cory]

By the way, as for the board rankings, I'd like to be a pinhead (sic) someday!

Board rankings are based on quantity, not quality, of posts. Qualitatively, you're at least a pinehead already.

If you're only going to consider one thing about rules, many will tell you it's what the rules at the next level are (e.g. District, Council). If you send cars/kids to the next level, you want your kids' cars to pass inspection at that level with little or no mods after the local races.

Another thing to consider is the size of your group. If you have 120 kids, half of whom you see for the first time on Race Day -- even with two workshops -- then there are good arguments for having some appropriate extra detail in your rules.

If you have a smaller, more intimate group -- like Darin's -- then KISS rules can be the best.

With rules, it's not necessarily one-size-fits-all.

[Mike Doyle]

Mike,
Thank you for the words. You kind of backed what I've been thinking.

By the way, as for the board rankings, I'd like to be a pinhead (sic) someday!

Hey! I'm a Pinhead too (collecting & restoring pinball machines).

I should get a shirt made and just have a Velcro letter "E" that I could swap between hobbies