What To Do About Late Arrivals?

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Pack11SanDiego
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What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Pack11SanDiego »

I've only been involved in Pinewood for the last three years. The first as a parent of a participant; the last two as a trackmaster who implemented a timing system for our pack's track(a Simplified James Brown's Least Expensive/Mark Logan's Racetimer.)

We have about 50 scouts in 6 dens, a 3-lane track, run a two-round PPN scheme(each racer in each lane twice) with finishes decided by points/head-to-head/best average time in that order, and ask that each den show up a half-hour before the scheduled start of their race to check-in.

This last year we had two racers show up about 5-10 minutes after their race had started; a good 40 minutes past the check-in time that was circulated in a handout to the entire pack well in advance. It caught us totally by surprise; to say the least.

The first thing one of the parents said was "nobody told us." Had I been a little quicker thinking I could have replied "Then how did you know to show up now?"

I first suggested just throwing them in with the next den, which upon short reflection was a quite unsatisfactory idea; unfair to that den. A fellow registar then offered them a chance to compete in the non-race categories only, which was met by a somewhat acrimonious response.

We ended up starting their den's race over, which was quite a [bummer] for a few obvious reasons: The wear on those cars that had already run slowed them down(we did allow relubes for everyone), those that were ahead now had to compete anew with fresh arrivals, and it threatened to throw our whole schedule off.

Thanx to our timer/software we were able to catch up by the next den, but there was considerable dissatisfaction on the part of those who followed the rules and showed up ontime; rightly so.

Our pack uses handlers to position the cars, and one idea I think worthwhile is to pre-register as many cars as possible a day or two in advance. Most of the scouts attend our elementary school and it would be quite easy to allot a Friday afternoon after-school to accomplish this.

It would both help with possible late arrivals, but also to cut down on race day weight issues and general congestion at the registration area.


Any thoughts on how to handle this sticky wicket?

[Edited by gpraceman]
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Cory
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Cory »

Pack11SanDiego wrote:Any thoughts on how to handle this sticky wicket?
This happened to us a couple of times, as well. Both times there was another Den in the same Rank into which we could put the boy. He was allowed to race, but could not win any awards nor could he advance to the Rank finals. We understood that his presence in the chart probably created a little "noise" that could have affected the outcome for those cars that were eligible, but we were willing to live with that.

Had there not been another Den, I think we probably would have offered to put him with the next Rank if there was one, with the save provisos about winning/advancing. We race oldest to youngest, for a Wolf this would have meant having to race with the Tigers, so our offer may have been declined.

From a problem-avoidance and cover-the-bases perspective, we never handed out a car kit without a complete schedule, including check-in times on Race Day. We also published the schedule on the web, and it went out at least three or four times in broadcast emails leading up to Race Day. It would have been very unlikely that "nobody told us".

In the few cases where it happened, it was because the family had a conflict and made a choice that led to their late arrival. Further, the boy was the focal point of the conflict. Basically, the family chose b-ball or whatever over PWD. Hard for me to feel guilty about that.
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by gpraceman »

If racing hasn't started, then you just regenerate the schedule.

However, it is a sticky wicket if racing has already started. I personally don't like restarting racing for the group as it is unfair to those that have already raced.

If you are scoring by times, you can run them once in each lane and manually factor them into the standings (I am not sure how the Racetimer software would support this or not). Not very exciting since the latecomer is racing himself. If you are scoring by points, this doesn't work since they are not going head-to-head with anyone.

If you thought ahead and added an extra racer or two to your schedule, then you can simply substitute that late comer for one of these. If they missed a heat already, then that is the penalty for being late.

Our pack does check-in the night before the race and if anyone waits until race day to check-in, then they will run in the open division. I think that check-in before race day, if possible, will help resolve this issue for the most part.
Randy Lisano
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Stan Pope
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Stan Pope »

I agree with Cory and Randy regarding restarts.

In events and areas where late arrivals are more likely (such as folks getting lost on their way to district or council race locations), you can choose a format which penalizes tardiness in a more proportional manner. That is what we do for our district races by using an uncharted quintuple elimination. Rounds missed by tardiness (or being AWOL) are recorded as losses and when the racer joins (rejoins) the fray, he in racing against others with comparable records. So long as he didn't miss the 5th round, he is still in the hunt for 1st place! One youngster at our races left the racing for a couple rounds (probably around 45 minutes) and returned to racing in the last elimination group. He came back to take the 3rd place trophy home. 2nd place was a "near miss" as he split the heats with the 2nd place car.
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Pack11SanDiego
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Pack11SanDiego »

Thank you gentlemen, for your thoughtful replies.

We too have learned restarts are not the best idea; the hard way. :oops:


We could enter extra racer(s) to the schedule just in case, but wouldn't that entail running empty lanes? I'm not sure that is a good tradeoff considering how infrequently this occurs.

Likewise the equity of running 5X uncharted elimination has definite allure, but I'm not sure my feeble mind is up to the task of re-jiggering our scorekeeping apparatus. :lol:

It made it SO easy compared to our old eyeball-and-paper routine. Plus we really like having an equal number of heats for each racer.

I think we will have a discussion about these ideas/issues among the race planners soon. The best practical suggestion so far I think is (more)plentiful announcement of checkin/race times, and to have a pre-race checkin prior to race day.

I'm also leaning towards allowing the latecomer(s) to race timed in each lane, with an award should they place top 3 time-wise, but without allowing them into our six racer final should they win based on average time. That way they still get to race and are recognized, but the people who show up on time are not penalized.

Thanx again, you guys.

Mark M.
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Stan Pope
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Stan Pope »

Yes, if you are "racing the clock" then you have more alternatives. Solo runs in each lane are a possibility if the starting gate is consistent and if the track does not change during the day. (Cory noted in his tests that his track was sensitive to rug-rat influences, and had to redo some complete test series when those influences were in play.) The probability of those events is justification for exclusion of their times from the competition.

Things that make a starting gate inconsistent:
1. manually opened against tension
2. opening tension changes during the day (Oh, oh ... the rubber bands broke! Anybody got some more? Ah hah! You! The girl with the pony tail ... sacrifice the band holding it together "for the cause!")
I looked at the floor under one of our district tracks at the end of the day ... I picked up a large wad of broken rubber bands!

If you have once actually seen a no-chart multiple elim run ... and watched it for a few rounds, you would probably have little trouble actually running one. The trick is for the track chair to know what needs to happen, and be free to float through the track staff to assure that it happens. In my opinion, the method works best if the boys stage their own cars, but it can be done otherwise as well, but with less obvious fairness.

I have not structured a totally staff run plan ... I don't like making the boys be spectators in their own race ... but I'd help someone do it if their "traditions" dictated that the boys be "spectators" instead of "drivers".
Stan
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by gpraceman »

Stan Pope wrote:I looked at the floor under one of our district tracks at the end of the day ... I picked up a large wad of broken rubber bands!
Sounds like it's time for a spring :!:
Randy Lisano
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Stan Pope »

gpraceman wrote:Sounds like it's time for a spring :!:
Yes! It would have one if it were my track! And the spring would be opening the gate, not holding it closed! And it would have a tension adjustment!
Stan
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by ExtremePWD »

I converted our pack track to spring opening. Very consistent now.
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by ExtremePWD »

We run a qualifying round and then the top 7 advance to a speed finals or go to the best MPG race. A late scout that arrives during the qualifying round will run timed runs in each lane against old cars. We won't reschedule the whole group for one. If he arrives after the qualifying then he would not be eligible for the speed finals.
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Stan Pope »

ExtremePWD wrote:I converted our pack track to spring opening. Very consistent now.
There were a couple of youngsters from your pack that certainly weren't late for their district races! What a show your Tiger and Web-I put on in the Race of Champions! Outstanding cars! They pushed the no-chart double elimination to the limit, including one dead heat! I worked in Cat's IT with the grandfather of one of 'em ... many years ago when we were both pups!
Stan
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Pack11SanDiego
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Pack11SanDiego »

Stan Pope wrote:... I don't like making the boys be spectators in their own race ... but I'd help someone do it if their "traditions" dictated that the boys be "spectators" instead of "drivers".
Tradition is about the ONLY reason I can think of for why our pack did it that way.

I have a feeling everybody will want to let the kids position their own cars; we even have a two-step platform already built that would be perfect for that.

Thanx for the great ideas, everybody. I've got some springs to work on, and a release latch to fabricate.
Jthompson

Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Jthompson »

Pack11SanDiego,

I have a very simple spring design and latch design that you could adapt to your track. I can email you with the picture and describe the setup.

With this setup, we had times average within .002 second difference per lane on a wooden track. Runs were extremely repeatable on three test cars.
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Re: What To Do About Late Arrivals?

Post by Pack11SanDiego »

Jthompson wrote:Pack11SanDiego,

I have a very simple spring design and latch design that you could adapt to your track. I can email you with the picture and describe the setup...
Thank you, John; that was very kind of you to offer.

We found another design on this site already, and went with that; looks like it's going to work out well.
Image

http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=831&highlight=jpg

Ours is somewhat cruder than this, but utilizes the same basic design.
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