Attendace Requirement for Race Day Questions....

[TheDez2]

We just had our pinewood derby race for our pack and it was a huge success except for one problem which caused a huge altercation with the police getting called to help diffuse the situation and a parent being escorted out of the building.

Friday night we had our check-in. We impounded all cars for the race the next day.

Saturday was race day. We had everyone check in, since you need to be in attendance to race. We had 2 scouts not show up, we waited till 30 min after registration and they were still not there. So we pulled their cars and names from our race software.

About 20 minutes into the race one of the scouts showed up. The software had placed on dummy car into the race, and the cubmaster made the decision to put the late scouts car into that position since it had yet to race.

About 10 minutes after that the second scout showed up. Since the program only put one dummy car into the race, we couldn't put him in.

Both parents for both boys were upset because we had pulled their cars from the race. The second parent was especially upset because their scout couldn't race.

My question I'm trying to find out is, what are the other packs doing for the attendace requirement? If a scout doesn't show up do you pull the car? Or do you leave them in and when its time for the car to race they get 10 sec races until they show? Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.

We want to make it fair for all scouts, and we don't want to punish the scouts who follow the rules and arrive on time. We also don't want a scout to show up half way through the race, and we've been racing their car and they have the fastest car (which happened!).

We are going to be having a parent meeting with all parents in the pack in the next week and I want to have a plan put together saying we have found a solution for this problem and it will not happen again.

[psycaz]

Our pack has no attendance requirement. As long as the car was checked in properly, it gets to race.

For us, it takes out the issue of what to do if they boy comes up sick or a sibling does and that would force him to not attend. We always to try err on the side of the boy.

Would hate to tell a boy that they're car didn't get to race due to something beyond their control after they spent the time to build it.

[doct1010]

We don't impound cars and don't have check-in and inspection until race day. We do have a pre race weigh in. On race day we require the scout to check in the car.

[psycaz]

Should have mentioned, we check in and impound the night before the race.

[tmbnorm]

I agree with psycat.

If the car is checked in the night before, it should race.

There are lots of things beyond the control of the scout (and the parents) that could cause him to be late. What if they had car trouble?

I had a boy that was going to be out of town the day of our race. Had he wanted, I would have checked in his car and raced it for him. I do not think they built a car though.

[Darin McGrew]

We have the weigh-in the Wednesday night (club meeting) before the derby, and have no attendance requirement.

[blcrow33]

Our pack has check in the day of the race and we do not make the scouts be present. The car can race as long as it is there. Although we have never had a car show up with out a scout. But we have had the scout not come back in the evening for the grand finals race but his car was still in the grand finals. I agree that the scout should not get punished for something that would stop him from coming to the race. I am sure the scout would be there if they could.

[PWD_addict]

In my son's Pack, the Scout must be present to race. It's in the rules and it's enforced.

Not that way in my Godson's pack. However, although it may be self-evident, a car must be present to be run in the Grand Finals. This past weekend, Grand Finalists (fastest 8 cars) weren't announced until all the Den's races had run. Some Scouts left and took their cars with them. It was believed that one of the Grand Finalists had left with their car but fortunately, the car was placed in the wrong bin and found just before the "delete" key was hit!

However, for Space Derby, one of the boys wasn't able to make the race but he built a Spaceship anyway. He got a patch but wasn't eligible for an award. He would have gotten second in his Den. In that case, the rules were "bent". I think that is a fair compromise when attendance is in the rules.

The bottom line is that it should be in the rules, if it is enforced.

[Bulldog]

We check in on race day.

The webelos race first in their respective dens, and we proceed through each rank according to age, ending with the Tigers. While one rank is racing, the next rank is checking in. If a scout is not present in time for registration for his rank, he cannot race. But he is welcome to enter his car in the open class if he chooses.

So there is no issue about a scout needing to be present in order to race- if he isn't there, neither is his car. This is my son's third year in cubs, and I have never seen this happen, BTW.

Personally, I feel that in the case of registering the night before, that the scout's car should be run. He was there for registration, I suppose his absence is not different than if he had to leave the race to make a trip to the restroom.

I am especially troubled, however that you mentioned that the police had to be involved. It is truly sad that it had to come to this. Not a good example to set for the boys, to say the very least. I think that often, people need to step back and look at the big picture- The pinewood derby is supposed to be a fun time, when boys get to spend some time with their dad working on a woodworking project, enjoy the fellowship of the scouts, and have FUN cheering on each other's cars as they roll down the track. The over-competitiveness and strictest of rules have really drawn out the worst in some people.

[psycaz]

The only inference I would take from the police having to become involved is that you end up wioth more problems is once you start bending rules to accomodate someone. They let in one car yet not the other race.

After that, its hard to say what happened to cause the situation to escalate. Words, attitudes and the like all come into play.

Take the situation and use it to learn for the future.

[PWD_addict]

This past weekend, there was one car that was brought to check-in that was underweight so the parent asked if he could work on it at home and bring it back. They added the car into GPRM at that time. There was an hour left for check-in so it shouldn't have been an issue. However, they didn't get back until after the races had started--about 40 minutes after check-in was supposed to be closed. His Den hadn't begun racing so they let him race. IMHO, that was a mistake. Fortunately for the rest of the boys, the car didn't do well enough to win anything. My suggestion would have been to let him race but not be eligible for a trophy--as there was no open class races. The leader that allowed it should probably have consulted with the rest of the leadership team. Good thing it didn't affect the outcome.

[Bulldog]

This past weekend, there was one car that was brought to check-in that was underweight so the parent asked if he could work on it at home and bring it back. They added the car into GPRM at that time. There was an hour left for check-in so it shouldn't have been an issue. However, they didn't get back until after the races had started--about 40 minutes after check-in was supposed to be closed. His Den hadn't begun racing so they let him race. IMHO, that was a mistake. Fortunately for the rest of the boys, the car didn't do well enough to win anything. My suggestion would have been to let him race but not be eligible for a trophy--as there was no open class races. The leader that allowed it should probably have consulted with the rest of the leadership team. Good thing it didn't affect the outcome.

Meh-

It's one of those things, I guess-

I understand adhering to the rules- Because you bend the rules for one, you are expected to do the same for all, no matter the circumstances.

But you have to ask- What unfair advantage did the scout have by being late for registration? I can really think of none, other than having a tiny bit more time to make modifications? And who is harmed and how by allowing him to race?

We need to remember that although a competion, this is a fun event for the boys- and IMO, that is the most important goal of the day. It certainly isn't the boy's fault if his parents were late getting him to the race. So long as he didn't miss the start of his races, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

[Stan Pope]

When the racing method permits, I prefer to allow entries after the "official cutoff". I see that "cutoff" really as a time by which there is no penalty for tardiness! I think that some tardiness penalty is appropriate, but that "can't race" is too severe a penalty.

There are lots of reasons for tardiness, and some are totally outside the control of the Scout and his family. Penalty should, if possible, be "proportionate."

For races held on unfamiliar locations involving out-of-town driving, I would purposely choose a competition method which facilitates proportionate penalty. This is a tally "for" our district's use of no-chart quintuple elimination. Inspection "closes" at a set time for each age-group. Those in line for inspection at "closure time" are not penalized unless they fail inspection. If the arrive late or fail that "last chance" inspection, then they risk missing a round or two of racing. But, they can easily be integrated into the competition with losses marked for the missed rounds. Since the only "chart" is the record card that each racer wears, it is easy to "update the charts" to reflect his entry into the competition. I do not consider the fact that the late arrivals have fewer "runs on their graphite" as an advantage that even begins to offset the heat losses marked against them.

[Go Bubba Go]

We don't have a written rule on this subject, but this post is reminding me that we should.

The only time I am aware of this issue arising thus far is when I was a Den Leader and one of the boys in our Den had a religious ceremony (confirmation, I think) scheduled for the same morning as our Pack race. I recall that the boy (and his car) ended up making it in time for check-in and racing, but were that not the case I believe he was just not going to be allowed to race (I didn't agree, but we don't all always agree...)

I believe the allowance I was willing to make that others were not was based on the fact that his activity was of a religious nature and a rather important event, and not just an elective sleepover, campout, ball game, etc. for which I would expect the boy to prioritize and choose.

I will have to consider this question for next year (I am now PWD committee chair), thanks for the "heads up".

[PWD_addict]

Meh-

It's one of those things, I guess-

I understand adhering to the rules- Because you bend the rules for one, you are expected to do the same for all, no matter the circumstances.

But you have to ask- What unfair advantage did the scout have by being late for registration? I can really think of none, other than having a tiny bit more time to make modifications? And who is harmed and how by allowing him to race?

We need to remember that although a competion, this is a fun event for the boys- and IMO, that is the most important goal of the day. It certainly isn't the boy's fault if his parents were late getting him to the race. So long as he didn't miss the start of his races, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

Bulldog--I respectfully disagree. Yes, it is to be fun but it also needs to be a fair competition. That extra hour probably didn't help but who knows--the Dad may have seen how the competition looked and decided to change some things up at the last minute. And, if you make the exception for one this year, what happens next year when 5 show up late? For logistics sake, if they hadn't added them into GPRM upon first check-in, it would have been a challenge (novice at the computer) to add them in after the races had started.

If parents really believed that the car would not be allowed to race if they didn't show up on time, they would be sure to get their boys there on time. Exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis as things happen beyond the control of the parents or scouts but a blanket--"let them race (and compete for trophies) if they get there before the race is over" sounds like it's inviting all kinds of problems. Similar to the reason that rules need to be as specific as possible to be fair to everyone.