Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
doct1010
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by doct1010 »

blakesfav wrote: At some point, we're going to have to start building these cars only in workshops, with no cars brought home so that dad can take over. I think that would capture the true intent of the activity.
Much to the contrary. The true intent; it is a parent/child activity designed to teach as well as foster the relationship. I understand your general point, but don't dismiss the import of the parental involvement ad hoc.
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by Darin McGrew »

blakesfav wrote: At some point, we're going to have to start building these cars only in workshops, with no cars brought home so that dad can take over. I think that would capture the true intent of the activity.
doct1010 wrote:Much to the contrary. The true intent; it is a parent/child activity designed to teach as well as foster the relationship. I understand your general point, but don't dismiss the import of the parental involvement ad hoc.
Amen.

We find that encouraging the dads to enter the All Comers race helps encourage them not to take over their kids' cars. Plus, working side-by-side with a kid (each of you working on your own car) is a great way to teach them.
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BigDozer66
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by BigDozer66 »

doct1010 wrote:
blakesfav wrote: At some point, we're going to have to start building these cars only in workshops, with no cars brought home so that dad can take over. I think that would capture the true intent of the activity.
Much to the contrary. The true intent; it is a parent/child activity designed to teach as well as foster the relationship. I understand your general point, but don't dismiss the import of the parental involvement ad hoc.
Doing the former would deprive many sons and their parent (dad or mom) of memories that will last a lifetime. :cry:

The latter is what Don had in mind when he began the Derbies many years ago. :D

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ohiofitter
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by ohiofitter »

Nooby ...The chair person we had for the last 5 years moved unto boys scouts...leaving the position open...Everyone had the opportunity to volunteer
for it....If your not happy take it up with you scoutmaster to be chairman next year...... But I found out that at the round table meeting our council has our chairperson was not there when they discussed the rules for district...But he was able to get them and your car had to be built under those rules as well. So we were told in advance that if you want your car to pass inspection at a district level you would have to follow the rules to the T.....That's where we had problems before...our past chairman let anything go...But some parents complained about this because they weren't able to pass inspection at districts.
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by Nooby »

The problem with our pack is that someone came up with the bright
idea that the parents of the Bear scouts should run the Derby. According
to the scoutmaster, they did nothing. In fact, when we were setting up
the track, they were no where to be found. It was only after inspection
that they decided to get involved.

I think the rotating derby management is fair, but in my previous pack,
we never turned away anyone who wanted to help - and usually had
to recruit a few helpers at the last minute.

Maybe there is some room for derby chairman, but still draw volunteers
from the Bear ranks.

I really have no problem with any particular rule - as long as it is fair.
My problem is not communicating with new scouts until 6 days prior
to the race. We were pretty much finished with the car at that point.
"Nooby"
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Go Bubba Go
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by Go Bubba Go »

blakesfav wrote:...At some point, we're going to have to start building these cars only in workshops, with no cars brought home so that dad can take over. I think that would capture the true intent of the activity.
If you're not careful, you could end up doing quite the opposite of the true intent.

The intent per the Founder, which is in keeping with the 10 Purposes of Cub Scouting (i.e. Sportsmanship & Fitness, Family Understanding, Fun & Adventure, etc.) was given as follows:

"I wanted to devise a wholesome, constructive activity that would foster a closer father-son relationship and promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition.“ Don Murphy, Founder of the Pinewood Derby in 1953, Manhattan Beach, CA Cub Scout Pack 280C

All too often the "father-son" relationship part gets thrown out the window because not all fathers are equally interested (or even around), equipped, knowledgeable, etc. and this seems to some folks to be "unfair". The "quick fix" is just to exclude the fathers altogether by having "boys only" workshops, or putting severe constraints on the father-son teams by "allowing" them to work on their cars only during the "approved" workshops (and if some fathers can't make those due to work conflicts, etc.... oh well), or "dumbing down" the rules to the extent that learning and creativity are kept to a minimum.

It seems to me we should provide as many opportunities as we can (workshops, teaching materials, "dial-a-pinehead" access, etc.) to the father (or mother or grandparent or whoever)-son teams to improve their time together (and their cars). As with all other things (sports, academics, etc.), some will drink heavily from what is offered and others... not a drop. Chances are very good (as with sports, academics, etc.) that those teams that put the most time and effort into the activity will get the most reward from it (whether it be better speed, better memories of time shared, etc...). Whether this is deemed by some to be "unfair" or not, it is the way life works and we should teach the boys how to deal with it i.e.:

If you want better results, work harder
If you don't want to work hard, don't complain about your poor results
Sometimes others begin with an advantage, this means you have to work harder to catch them
If you are blessed to have better resources than others, you will gain much (personal satisfaction, new friendships, etc.) from sharing
Be gracious if you lose, and learn from it
Be gracious if you win, and encourage others
There will be some folks you just can't catch, that isn't the question. Learn to Do Your Best, regardless of others.

Bubba
"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby
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Re: Return of the New Guy - Rules Nightmare

Post by 3 Cub Dad »

Go Bubba Go wrote: It seems to me we should provide as many opportunities as we can (workshops, teaching materials, "dial-a-pinehead" access, etc.) to the father (or mother or grandparent or whoever)-son teams to improve their time together (and their cars). As with all other things (sports, academics, etc.), some will drink heavily from what is offered and others... not a drop. Chances are very good (as with sports, academics, etc.) that those teams that put the most time and effort into the activity will get the most reward from it (whether it be better speed, better memories of time shared, etc...). Whether this is deemed by some to be "unfair" or not, it is the way life works and we should teach the boys how to deal with it i.e.:
Bubba,

Well said. We ran our test-n-tune this weekend. After pubilicising the workshop, tips, etc, I saw at least 4 cars that were faster than last years pack champion. It brought a smile to my face that we're increasing the level of competition, and a little dread to my heart, because my son was last year's pack champion! I guess we'll see on Saturday!
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