Need some advise from the experts

Discussions on race planning, preparations and how to run a "fair" and fun race.
Post Reply
beakerboysracing
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: Conyers, Ga

Need some advise from the experts

Post by beakerboysracing »

Hey guys,

I need your advise.

We started in PWD last year we my two older boys joined scouts. My two boys went on to win both the pack and district races. Since then my boys and I have been participating in proxy racing.

After a conversation with our Cubmaster at this years Webeloree, I volunteered to put on this year's derby. I think I might have bitten off more than I can chew as feel overwelmed with everthing that is involved.

The Cubmaster and I came to an agreement that we wanted to try and make this years event as fair and even for the boys as we could by providing the info I have to all , so that there weren't one or two cars that just decimated the field like last year.

The first thing I did was to draft a set of rules. Thanks to 3Cub, we now have a set of rules in place that will allow a level playing field for the pack derby as well as giving us a little wiggle room for improvement in the cars that will go on to district. District rules are fairly lax, so I didn't want to make it impossible for our boys to be competitive at district, so only a minimum amount of effort will be needed to convert the cars for district to be competitive.

I have prepared a presentation for the pack that we be given after they boys receive their cars when they recharter. I tried to keep the presentation as simple as possible in order not confuse those parents that don't have the ability to do this. Yet, I gave what I believe to be enough info to help them in the construction.

I have also set up workshops over the 5 weeks prior to the race at my house so that the boys and partner can come in and get help with construction. I will have a drill press, band saw, scroll saw, belt sander, derbyworx specialty tools for them to use as well as all the safety equipment such as eye protection, dust mask, disposable gloves etc.

I have also just purchased a 4 lane 42ft best track with microwizaed timer and grandprix software for the race. The track the pack has is terrible and is in need of replacing as well as our RA chapter at church, who was in need of a new track, so I felt this was worth the investment as it can be used for years to come.

After the five weekends of workshops, we will then have test and tune nights where I will have the track set up and let the boys come in and run their cars to make sure they are ready to go for race day. No racing, just testing.

Is there anything I am forgetting?

Any additional safety precautions I need to take?

Am I giving enough time to complete the task?

Liability. That concerns me with the saws. What should I do about that?

Like to have sound effects and presentation music for the race. Any suggestions?

Any other thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

Scott

Beakerboys
User avatar
3 Cub Dad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:26 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by 3 Cub Dad »

Scott,

You're off to a great start. A additional things to think about or consider.

First, for the workshops:

For your workshop notifications, make sure you emphasize that each scout must have an adult with them. Your job in runnig the workshops is to give advice and help out but above all keep everyone safe. You cannot be responsible for watching multiple children at the same time.

You'll want to have copies of a lot of design templates for the boys to choose from and trace onto their block. Some will come with a design already in mind. Most will simply walk in with their kits having no clue what they're planning on doing.

Speaking of kits, have lots of extras on hand. At least one or two will forget to bring theirs with them. You'll also need the extra's for spare parts. (axles, wheels, even a broken block!)

Don't forget to have the scale at the workshop. After they car is cut and prepped, it can be weighed so that they know how much weight they need to add at home.

No kids on the band saw! Blade moves much too fast. We let the kids cut out their car on the scroll saw. The rule is: four hands on the wood at all times, (scout - seated, and parent/adult/leader behind)

Set up separate workstations so people can rotate to them as they are available. We normally have 6 station.

Station 1 - design station - table with templates, pencils, rulers etc.
Station 2 - drill press with 3/8" fostner bit with a pre-set depth to hollow out the bottom of the car for recessing weight.
Station 3 - scroll saw for cut out of body shape
Station 4 - axle prep, a couple of drills or dremels clamped to a workbench with precut strips of 220, 320 & 600 grit sandpaper as well as files
Station 5 - wheel prep, a couple of drill clamped to a workbench, mandrels in place, with sandpaper strips pre cut
Station 6 - sanding

For the test and tune, we have one ABSOLUTE rule: Only one scout allowed on the track at a time! Absolutely NO racing of cars against others. This will save you a LOT of headaches, heartaches, and problems.

One last suggestion. If at all possible, REQUIRE that the cars be inpected, checked-in and impounded the night before the race. This can be done while you're getting the track and venue set up. This removes a lot of the chaos on race day.

Good luck and let me know if I can help out in any way.

3CubDad
TAL
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: N.C., USA

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by TAL »

beakerboysracing wrote:
The first thing I did was to draft a set of rules. Thanks to 3Cub, we now have a set of rules in place that will allow a level playing field for the pack derby as well as giving us a little wiggle room for improvement in the cars that will go on to district. District rules are fairly lax, so I didn't want to make it impossible for our boys to be competitive at district, so only a minimum amount of effort will be needed to convert the cars for district to be competitive.

Beakerboys
It sounds as if you are putting your best effort in and it should be greatly appreciated. Way to go!!!

But why not just use the district rules? Why would one need to convert their car?

Sounds like you have a nice track and timer.
I do agree absolutely No racing, I would go as far as Not even useing the finish line timer. Also I would suggest only assembling 3 or 4 sections of the track instead of the whole 42'.

Use the track only to see will they make it down the hill.

Leave a little mystery for the event.

That includes any and all participants and there partners too.
Including you dad.

Now after your pack race has determined the winners for district contenders, set the whole track up for your pack and let them fire away and make any and all adjustments necessary.
beakerboysracing
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: Conyers, Ga

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by beakerboysracing »

TAL wrote:
beakerboysracing wrote:
The first thing I did was to draft a set of rules. Thanks to 3Cub, we now have a set of rules in place that will allow a level playing field for the pack derby as well as giving us a little wiggle room for improvement in the cars that will go on to district. District rules are fairly lax, so I didn't want to make it impossible for our boys to be competitive at district, so only a minimum amount of effort will be needed to convert the cars for district to be competitive.

Beakerboys
It sounds as if you are putting your best effort in and it should be greatly appreciated. Way to go!!!

But why not just use the district rules? Why would one need to convert their car?

Sounds like you have a nice track and timer.
I do agree absolutely No racing, I would go as far as Not even useing the finish line timer. Also I would suggest only assembling 3 or 4 sections of the track instead of the whole 42'.

Use the track only to see will they make it down the hill.

Leave a little mystery for the event.

That includes any and all participants and there partners too.
Including you dad.

Now after your pack race has determined the winners for district contenders, set the whole track up for your pack and let them fire away and make any and all adjustments necessary.
Thanks for your input TAL. The reason we didn't want to use the district rules is that district allows lightened wheels. We felt that most parents would not be willing to spend the money on special wheels but some that would. If all the boys had to run the same wheels, we felt like it would be more fair. Then, once we got the 15 boys that would be going to district, open that option up to those parents who would be willing to spend the money on the go fast stuff. At a pack level, those cars would be fundamentally sound, then at district, add the go fast stuff.

Thanks 3Cub, you brought up some things I hadn't thought of.

Thanks

Scott

Beakerboys
TAL
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:47 pm
Location: N.C., USA

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by TAL »

beakerboysracing wrote:
Thanks for your input TAL. The reason we didn't want to use the district rules is that district allows lightened wheels. We felt that most parents would not be willing to spend the money on special wheels but some that would. If all the boys had to run the same wheels, we felt like it would be more fair. Then, once we got the 15 boys that would be going to district, open that option up to those parents who would be willing to spend the money on the go fast stuff. At a pack level, those cars would be fundamentally sound, then at district, add the go fast stuff.


Beakerboys
When you put it that way , Makes good since to me.
Mr. Slick
Merchant
Merchant
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:16 am
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by Mr. Slick »

Keep the band saw in the closet. The boys will be able to handle the scroll saw with some adult supervision. My record for the last decade of weekly workshops has been that the only people who get hurt(I average one minor cut that needs a simple band-aid on a finger each year with 500+ participants) are the adults who are PUSHING HARD on the scroll saws. The kids don't push hard, they let the saw do the work and they seem to have a much better respect for the blade when it gets close to the edge of the wood.

POSTERS with the diagrams. . . .

Remember Nail Head, Nail shaft and Nail Tip. The tip needs just a bit of sanding so as not to scratch the wheel bore when you insert it.

Rather then attach the drill to the table, attach the sandpaper to a fixture and let the kids use the variable speed drill with the axle chucked in it. The fixtures I use are T shaped. The base is a 1x3 with a 1x2 centered on edge. On top of the 1x2 is a 1/4" x 1/4" strip that holds the sand paper. I take the 8.5" x 11" sheets of sandpaper and cut them into 1/4" strips 8 .5" long. I attach a 600 piece and a 1500/2000 piece to the top of the 1/4" strip with a small screw at each end of the strip.

Watch your mail.

You should have a scale AND weights to attach at the workshops. I bring the cars upto 4.75 oz at the workshop.

I only instruct the people on how to lubricate with Tube-O-Lube or Hob-E-Lube. . . . not too much, spin in at least 3 times, remember the head of the nail/wheel interface, NOT OVER YOUR Mom's WHITE COUNTER!

I instruct them on how to determine the dominant front wheel. The goal of having the back tires stay away from the car and the DFW steer TOWARDS the center rail. Use a mirror or other flat surface, level it, ramp of a few inches for 4'. Have it curve a few inches over the 4 feet.

and on I ramble. . . can you tell that I am putting together my instructions for University of Scouting this Saturday. :D

I'll post a link to the info when I get it done. . . I present Saturday morning so I'll have it done by Saturday noon!
Mr. Slick says: Honey, I am doing this for the kids, not myself.
User avatar
Pinewood Daddy
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1500
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:04 pm
Location: Wallingford, Connecticut

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by Pinewood Daddy »

Mr. Slick wrote:and on I ramble. . . can you tell that I am putting together my instructions for University of Scouting this Saturday. :D

I'll post a link to the info when I get it done. . . I present Saturday morning so I'll have it done by Saturday noon!
We'll be waaaaaaiting!!!! :mrgreen:
User avatar
Go Bubba Go
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Northern, Illinois

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Pinewood Daddy wrote:
Mr. Slick wrote:and on I ramble. . . can you tell that I am putting together my instructions for University of Scouting this Saturday. :D

I'll post a link to the info when I get it done. . . I present Saturday morning so I'll have it done by Saturday noon!
We'll be waaaaaaiting!!!! :mrgreen:
Any chance you'll be taping the session?

Enquiring minds want to know :shock:

Bubba
"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby
Mr. Slick
Merchant
Merchant
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:16 am
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by Mr. Slick »

The presentation was a bust. . . . They double booked two presenters. . . I got the last 15 minutes to go over every Pro-Worx tool and how to use it, how to lube, align, and transport your car.

Anyway It went well. Not the best but I'm guessing it wasn't too bad since no one left early! :)

The PwdRacing.com web site has been updated with links to the current presentations.

The Derby-Worx Pro-Tool summary is at :
www.PwdRacing.com/PwdBuilding_PowWow.pdf
( I hope I don't get into trouble with the document - I'll seek permission for the images and information that I summarized/copied from the DerbyWorx site. Hey, racer X how does it look? I didn't show it to any one but here so far)

The main presentation is at: www.PwdRacing.com/Pinewood101.ppt
Mr. Slick says: Honey, I am doing this for the kids, not myself.
User avatar
GravityRacer
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:39 pm
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Re: Need some advise from the experts

Post by GravityRacer »

Nice slide show! Pretty professional compared to when I did training (flipboards on easels), many a year ago. But then, the meeting places didn't have any provision for an overhead projector hooked to a laptop in those days (a mere 8 years ago).
Post Reply