Which should be the focus of a Council Derby

[pack529holycross]

I am pondering the value of scheduling vs. a smooth event vs. parent involvement within the confines of a Council Derby.


We all know that if your kid isn't getting a trophy with their rank, and therefore not in the finals, odds are you bail out before any of that ever happens.

Although it is fun to run a " grand finals ", I am thinking there would be LESS value in running an OVERALL finals series with 80% of the crowd gone after 2 1/2 hours of interlaced racing than to run a traditional schedule, do Rank finals series', and allow the kids to benefit from bright lights on each rank.

Obviously if there are only 50 cars total, this might not be the best course of action, but if there are 50 Tigers, wolves, etc each.. then I am leaning towards this alternative plan.

Any thoughts?

Nicholas

[bad_karma_2805a1]

We ran our race this year as a Pack instead of by rank. We had 114 races and it went really smooth. With the Pack set up, or in this case a Council set up, kids are always racing and it elimates the early exit of people.

[mbb]

Why on earth are you thinking that there must be be spectators there to have value? It is a competition for the ones competing, and their parents. Spectators only care about the races they are in , they couldnt care less about the rest of it. The idea that it is a spectator event is really silly.

Have you ever been to a high school sports event that takes place during the school day, baseball, softball, etc. You can count the spectators on your fingers. Does this mean they shouldnt bother? Of course not.

Point is, its a chance for the fastest cars to race head to head and that adds a lot for the kids that are racing. You need to put them first.

[pack529holycross]

Why on earth are you thinking that there must be be spectators there to have value? It is a competition for the ones competing, and their parents. Spectators only care about the races they are in , they couldnt care less about the rest of it. The idea that it is a spectator event is really silly.

Have you ever been to a high school sports event that takes place during the school day, baseball, softball, etc. You can count the spectators on your fingers. Does this mean they shouldnt bother? Of course not.

Point is, its a chance for the fastest cars to race head to head and that adds a lot for the kids that are racing. You need to put them first.

You arent' understanding my point -

Scenario A - you have a master schedule, keeping everyone there till the end, then everyone bails out other than the finals contestants.

Scenario B - you have a staggered event with Tigers / Tigers Finals... complete... then Wolves / Wolves Finals... during the time that one finals is going on , the next group ( or two ) are there and filling the room... of course when you get to WII, you will still be stuck with a low amount of people, but for the most of the day, the room is very full.

That was my point.

[Stan Pope]

We had just the opposite problem ... had everybody been there for the entire district derby period, most would have had to stand, and few could have seen anything. Rather, we needed to "phase the crowd through", which means that we needed to "phase the competitors through."

We did do a Race of Champions pitting #1 from each grades' races, and, yes, there were not many still there to cheer for them. But the important people were there!

[gpraceman]

Rather, we needed to "phase the crowd through", which means that we needed to "phase the competitors through."

We did do a Race of Champions pitting #1 from each grades' races, and, yes, there were not many still there to cheer for them. But the important people were there!

We did the same thing for our district race. It is true that it really ends of being the families of the racers that are there for that last race, but as you point out, the most important people are there.

[mbb]

At district, when you may have 400 hundred cars, you normally schedule the ranks to show up at different times anyway. That prevents having people waiting around hours for the 4 heats their kid runs. Or you may run the rank races on multiple tracks to speed things up, no one ever said you can only use one track.

The only ones that have to wait are the ones in the finals, and they dont mind. They can even leave and come back if they raced early enough.

[gpraceman]

Or you may run the rank races on multiple tracks to speed things up, no one ever said you can only use one track.

Ugh! Having been involved in 4 district races, including running the last two, I would have hated trying to manage multiple tracks at the same time. We staggered each rank over the course of the day. It was a long day for the race crew, but far less hair pulling with only one track to manage. Families came when they needed to and left when their rank was done racing. It was much more convenient for them that way. The only inconvenience for the families were for the ones that were involved in the finals. Not a one complained about having to come back at the end of the day.

[pack529holycross]

Or you may run the rank races on multiple tracks to speed things up, no one ever said you can only use one track.

Ugh! Having been involved in 4 district races, including running the last two, I would have hated trying to manage multiple tracks at the same time. We staggered each rank over the course of the day. It was a long day for the race crew, but far less hair pulling with only one track to manage. Families came when they needed to and left when their rank was done racing. It was much more convenient for them that way. The only inconvenience for the families were for the ones that were involved in the finals. Not a one complained about having to come back at the end of the day.

I wonder if I did it this way:

Racing begins at 11am, with 2 hr of racing per ranks:

Tigers / Wolves 11AM ( Including finals for each rank )

Bears / ALL Webelos 1PM ( Including finals for each rank )

GRAND FINALS 3PM


This would allow the Tigers Wolves 2 hr break to get some lunch, and be ready for finals at 3pm. Likewise, the Bears / Webelos would be freshly fed BEFORE their heats, keeping them somewhat satiated through their 3 hours of participation.

Thoughts?

[gpraceman]

I wonder if I did it this way:

Racing begins at 11am, with 2 hr of racing per ranks:

Tigers / Wolves 11AM ( Including finals for each rank )

Bears / ALL Webelos 1PM ( Including finals for each rank )

GRAND FINALS 3PM

This would allow the Tigers Wolves 2 hr break to get some lunch, and be ready for finals at 3pm. Likewise, the Bears / Webelos would be freshly fed BEFORE their heats, keeping them somewhat satiated through their 3 hours of participation.

Why not give each rank their own time slot?

Here's the schedule that we used:

8:00 am – 9:00 am Tigers check-in
9:00 am – 10:30 am Tigers race

9:30 am – 10:30 am Wolves check-in
10:30 am – 12:00 pm Wolves race

11:00 am – 12:00 pm Bears check-in
12:00 pm – 1:30 pm Bears race

12:30 pm – 1:30 pm Jr. Webelos check-in
1:30 pm – 3:00 pm Jr. Webelos race

2:00 pm – 3:00 pm Sr. Webelos check-in
3:00 pm – 4:00 pm Sr. Webelos race

3:45 pm – 4:00 pm Finals check-in
4:00 pm – 4:30 pm Finals race

[pack529holycross]

What is the largest number of competitors ( total, or in a single rank ) that you have been able to work into that schedule?

Nicholas

[gpraceman]

What is the largest number of competitors ( total, or in a single rank ) that you have been able to work into that schedule?

I think it was a max of about 75 in a rank. Usually, we did not use up all of that race time, so that extra time ended up being breaks for the race crew.

[pack529holycross]

What is the largest number of competitors ( total, or in a single rank ) that you have been able to work into that schedule?

I think it was a max of about 75 in a rank. Usually, we did not use up all of that race time, so that extra time ended up being breaks for the race crew.

Ok.. so here is my question, mr wizard...

how do you exactly use GPRM v8.0 to generate race schedules for divisions within the same event that are checking in at different times, so that at the end of the event you can do a coalated grand finals ?

[gpraceman]

how do you exactly use GPRM v8.0 to generate race schedules for divisions within the same event that are checking in at different times, so that at the end of the event you can do a coalated grand finals ?

We have a computer at check-in and put the info into an Excel spreadsheet. Once the check-in is complete for that rank, we save that as a CSV file, put onto a USB flash drive, transfer to the race computer, and then import it. Once imported, we create and print the schedule.

Each rank is given its own car number series (100's for Tigers, 200's for Wolves, etc.) so there will be no number conflict during the import.

All the data goes into the same data file, so starting a Grand Finals at the end of the day is no problem.

[dna1990]

If by rank, consider reverse order. meaning let Tigers go last.

If they do stay till finals, it lessons the amount of time they are at the event. Younger ages tend to have the younger patience levels.

The same can't be said about folks once they pass into adulthood.