Last minute changes

[rookie]

How would you handle a situation where you were given out the rules for the pinewood derby over a month ago stating the factory slots had to be used an all 4 wheels touching,an this morning i recieved an e-mail stating that NOW we are allowed to use the extended wheelbase an it may be a railrider as well.Just as long as the car does not weigh more than 5 ounces............weigh in will be at 2pm an the race will be at 2;45............45 minutes due do any repairs or modifications to the cars.

[rookie]

Forgot to mention that our race is in 2 days.............

[JSG]

That's odd. Is this a pack race and the rules are made by the district?

[rookie]

it is a pack race.............a woman who nominated herself is packmaster an now all of a sudden the rules have been changed.she asked me the other night if i would do the weigh-in an inspections on the cars Saturday afternoon,an i told her yes i would but in the e-mail i recieved this morning i am no longer to do that but 2 other gentlemen who really don't have a clue what they are looking for when it comes down to the inspections.an i am not 2 help at all..............this is the 1st year i did not build my son a extended wheel base that was a rail rider due to her changing the rules on us this year soooooooooooo i built a standard wheel base car using the standard axle slots that will be a rail rider........hope all goes well.

[andylester]

it is a pack race.............a woman who nominated herself is packmaster an now all of a sudden the rules have been changed.she asked me the other night if i would do the weigh-in an inspections on the cars Saturday afternoon,an i told her yes i would but in the e-mail i recieved this morning i am no longer to do that but 2 other gentlemen who really don't have a clue what they are looking for when it comes down to the inspections.an i am not 2 help at all..............this is the 1st year i did not build my son a extended wheel base that was a rail rider due to her changing the rules on us this year soooooooooooo i built a standard wheel base car using the standard axle slots that will be a rail rider........hope all goes well.

I think you better look out for a fast car! It sounds like someone in power changed the rules to match the fast car they have built or bought... It also seems kind of odd who they have checking them in and how they excluded you from the picture. You don't by chance have a target on your back from winning in years past, do you???

If you can whip out a long wheelbase car that rides the rail, even if it has no paint, it may be worth the effort. You should be able to make one pretty quick, especially if you don't paint it. Get it to a track and test on it for an hour and you should be good to go.

Just my $.02 worth....

[FatSebastian]

I think you better look out for a fast car! ....

Agree with Andy about building an extended wheelbase rail-riding B car, or modifying the A car if that is at all possible, if your son is willing to go that route. Raise the point after the race with the Pack Committee. If you humbly enter the race under the new rules and do well, it won't look so much like sour grapes when you raise the point, and you will also be able speak from experience how much trouble (not to mention unfair) a last-minute rules change can be.

a woman who nominated herself is packmaster

Do you mean "Trackmaster" or "Cubmaster"? Cubmaster is approved by the Charter Organization. Trackmaster should be appointed and approved the Pack Committee and the Cubmaster.

[rookie]

You are exactly correct about us having a mark on our backs.............they are using extended wheelbases an rail riding.I asked my scout if he wanted to try an build another 1 but he said he wanted to use the car that we built............I am very proud of him 4 that an he is hoping that we will still be in the finals.we are appox 3in drift in about 7ft.with a 32ft best track.com located 5/8in in front of rear axle.alignment is great an axles are very polished as well are the bores of the wheels..........running a complete set of the new #8 wheels...dominant front wheel inset about 1/16th .so wish us luck .this will be interesting to say the least.i really feel sorry for some of the other scouts who's car will not be as fast........gonna try an contact them an see if i can help them out some.

[rookie]

what are the odds of a stock bsa wheelbase rail rider doing better than a extended wheelbase rail rider.......anyone done any comparisons?just curious

[andylester]

what are the odds of a stock bsa wheelbase rail rider doing better than a extended wheelbase rail rider.......anyone done any comparisons?just curious

I have seen it happen this year in our pack testing.

It all depends on so many other things, that just wheelbase sometimes does not make such a big difference. The alignment, amount of cant, axle prep, and COM make a huge difference.

So, yes a stock wheelbase car if set up well can beat a middle of the pack extended car easily.

[Stan Pope]

Two actions you might consider.

1. Ask you son if he thinks that it is fair to change the rules after he has worked hard to make a car that satisfies the original rules. Then ask him if he is willing to tell that to the pack committee. This is especially powerful if he wins or runs very competitively (very likely) and expresses it in terms of the impact on most of the other Cubs in the pack!

2. Ask you son if he would like to "lift a front wheel." That should be possible without a lot of rework and retuning. Perhaps it could even be done without any disassembly other than that one wheel if you used a pin vice to hold the bit. The old axle hole is hidden behind the lifted wheel. This leaves the alternative of putting the wheel back in place if they change the rules again. Yes, you are at a slight disadvantage due to rear wheel placement, but there's a good chance that you would be as fast as "the reason for the rule change."

[FatSebastian]

all of a sudden the rules have been changed [...] this is the 1st year i did not build my son a extended wheel base that was a rail rider due to her changing the rules on us this year

I am also wondering if lady-in-charge pulled rules from somewhere from the Internet, then got some push-back from a parent or two ("that's not the way we've done it before"), so a correction was belatedly issued. I would press the point as to why the rules were changed. The motive may be less sinister and more the result of inexperience or incompetence?

what are the odds of a stock bsa wheelbase rail rider doing better than a extended wheelbase rail rider

IMO, low. A major benefit of extended wheelbase is being able to place the COM further back without stability problems. On a shorter track, the odds likely improve.

Two actions you might consider.

There is significant wisdom and insight in Stan's recommendations.

and be sure to let us know the outcome.

[doct1010]

Best of luck against the odds!

FWIW, short track don't sweat too much. I like your set up and chances. Raise a wheel as Stan suggests. Be sure lube is broken in and GO FOR IT! Again all the best to you and son!

[JSG]

Our district publishes their rules and all the packs go by the district rules. That way when it comes time for the district race everyone (who plays by the rules) is on the same page. Do you have a district race? What have their rules been in the past?