Trophies

[*5 J's*]

We are awarding 14 trophies tomorrow. 1st - 5th fastest, Scouts Choice, Most Scouting Spirit (1st & 2nd), Best Craftsmanship (1st & 2nd), Most Artistic (1st & 2nd), Most Creative (1st & 2nd).

My question is - if somebody wins a trophy for 1st -5th fastest - should they be discounted from the other awards? I go back and forth with this one - seeing both sides. I thought I would see what others do and what they think is best.

Tonight in the Parent/Sibling race my son won first place in speed and won best of show. Should best of show have gone to the the best of show for the non placing racers? Part of me says yes. I would like to know others thoughts.

[stang68]

Congratulations on the trophies.
This is always a tough call.We give only one trophy per scout and have never had any complaints,but the way yours are titled i can see a car getting several if judging is done before the race.Good Luck

[*5 J's*]

stang68 - how are your trophies titled?

[FatSebastian]

Should best of show have gone to the best of show for the non placing racers?

If the best looking car is also the fastest, then why not win both? The main problem with disqualifying fast cars from the other awards is that it can reinforce an impression that those non-speed awards are "2nd class" made up for "slow cars". However, the kids probably don't overanalyze like adults might, so why not share the wealth?

[doct1010]

If judging proceeds racing, it is only an assumption of who might be fastest. If by chance design winners also prove to be race winners, well .... so be it.

I realize, ideally one would like to spread the trophies amongst the many as opposed to the few. In our pack we would print up design certificates in addition to trophies in an attempt to send every boy home with something.

[Stan Pope]

If judging proceeds racing, it is only an assumption of who might be fastest. If by chance design winners also prove to be race winners, well .... so be it.

I have no strong personal feelings on the root question. Our district has chosen to limit trophies to 1 per.

Judging goes on before and during racing. Judges submit a deep ranking for each category to the chairman. Chair checks list and strikes racing winners and, if a racer shows in more than one category, strikes the lower placement. Those remaining on each list are reranked.

Trophy awards for all competitions for a grade happen at completion of racing.

[Jeff Piazza]

This year our solution to this problem was: award a trophy to every entrant!

This really takes the pressure off the desire to spread the awards around.

Obviously the added expense is a consideration, but compared to the cost of the big trophies and the other derby expenses, we found the added cost of participant trophies to be within the budget.

[Kenny]

By Rank + Open
1-3 Trophy Race
1-3 Trophy Design (Boys vote)
Turtle Trophy (slowest avg w/ no DNFs)

Note: Race trophy winners are excluded from competition slate in the Best Design vote unless they choose to pass on the race trophy. This year we had a boy who gave up a race trophy to remain eligible for design "vote" in which he won first place, then later won the Grand Champion Design which was his intended goal.


Grand Champion (Scouts only)
1st Speed (top two from each rank - 6 heats - low avg time)
1st Design (all Scouts present get 1 vote - popular majority wins)

All participants get a Ribbon and a custom printed certificate.

Our Pack doesn't permit Race winners to compete in the "Best Design" voting currently.

K

[Darin McGrew]

IMHO, disqualifying fast cars from winning design awards turns the design awards into consolation prizes. We emphasize the design awards just as much as the speed awards, and part of that is allowing kids to win both a design award and a speed award.

If you want more kids to win trophies, then buy another trophy or two. Cars that win more than one award are rare enough that you probably won't need more than that.

Another option is to use generic trophies that can accept multiple badges (or ribbons, or whatever). If a kid earns two awards, then they get just one trophy, but it has both the speed badge and the design badge attached to it.

And yes, there are kids who would gladly turn down a speed award if that meant they would receive the design award they earned. IMHO, they shouldn't need to do that.

[Kenny]

I believe I agree with you Darin.

The main thing for us has been to recognize design at all and to put it on equal footing with racing.

Now that the Pack has accomplished that, I believe the next logical step is to eliminate award restrictions between racing and design.

The only concern that gets voiced from time to time is the notion of the design trophies becoming more of a "popularity contest." We haven't a great answer for that I'm afraid. I'm unaware of this being an issue thus far, but I suppose it could be a problem at some point.

How are your design awards administered? Scouts only vote? Leaders? A Design Czar?

K

[gpraceman]

Just striking the fastest cars off the design awards does make Design more of a 2nd class award, like Darin commented. But, by giving them the higher of the two helps keeps Speed and Design even. We've even gone a bit further and ask the kids which award they prefer. We've actually had a kid take a lower design award because he already had a bunch of speed awards.

[rpcarpe]

One idea I haven't seen here yet is a Team Trophy.
Lowest total for a den in the pack. Make it a big traveling trophy.
Takes the emphasis off one person guarding their secrets.
For more see supertimer.com in the How To Run a Derby section.
I think they have some good ideas that I want to try in our Den & District.

[gpraceman]

One idea I haven't seen here yet is a Team Trophy.
Lowest total for a den in the pack. Make it a big traveling trophy.
Takes the emphasis off one person guarding their secrets.

If you dig some, you can find some discussions here on team awards. I like the idea of promoting teamwork. Even doing workshops by team so you get racers sharing tips. Awhile back I added a team standings report (by group or subgroup) to GPRM to help promote that.

[doct1010]

How are your design awards administered? Scouts only vote? Leaders? A Design Czar?

We often picked judges from invited guests, mayor, councilmen, eagle scouts, teachers and parents. This past year cub master invited a race team to bring there car and crew, they were included as judges. (During break kids got to sit in REAL race car and hear it roar!) Each was supplied with design categories and criteria for judging each category, this was done prior to racing. Winners were announced during scheduled breaks in racing.

One year, at my suggestion, we allowed scouts to judge. Did not work out as planned, most voted for themselves or buddies. Best designs, in the eyes of the committee, went unrewarded.

[*5 J's*]

Lot of good points of view here. I still am not set on the best way. I should point out we have the scout's vote for "Scout's Choice" and folks from the audience vote for the others during an intermission halfway through the race program. (We still use an antiquated but nostalgic modified single elimination method - one thing at a time as the "new" PWD Chair).

So anyway as stated above, last night my youngest won First Place and Best of Show, Daughter placed third (due to her "speed" hint). Today we only allowed one trophy per scout. Elder son took first place, but would have got two second place trophies in the construction/design categories if allowed. To me this would be TOO much. However, the scout that took third place in speed - also won "Scout's Choice" but was not awarded it. Worst part is the scouts voted for this scout's car 3-1 - but yet our new rule precluded us from awarding it. So in one day - we see the good and the bad in a method.