Pinewood Derby OPEN rules

[*5 J's*]

I am proposing the following rules for our Pinewood Derby OPEN fundraiser event. I understand it's a big list - but if you have time can you take a look? Do any seem ambiguous? The list seems to compare well with many "Stock" rules.

2011 Pinewood Derby OPEN Rules

1.0 GENERAL

1.1 All cars competing in the 2011 Pinewood Derby OPEN must have been made for a 2011 Pack 130 Pinewood Derby OPEN. Cars made for any previous year Pinewood Derby OPEN are not acceptable.

1.3. Decorative items such as steering wheels, drivers, spoilers, decals and interior details are permissible as long as the finished car meets the these Pinewood Derby OPEN rules and specifications. Drivers are encouraged not to promote the use of alcoholic beverages or tobacco products by the use of decals advertising these products when decorating their racecars.

1.4. Any driver (including a member of the pit crew) has the right to appeal to the race officials for an interpretation of these rules. The race officials, by majority vote, will be the final interpreters of these rules.

2.0 CONSTRUCTION SPECIFICATIONS

2.1 Dimensions

2.1.1. The minimum width between wheels shall be 1 3/4 inches.

2.1.2. The maximum overall width of the car including wheels and axles must not exceed 2 3/4 inches.

2.1.3 Minimum clearance between the bottom of the car and the bottom of the wheels (between the wheels) shall be 3/8 inch.

2.1.4. The maximum length of the car shall not exceed 7 inches.

2.1.5. The maximum height of the car shall not exceed 4 3/4 inches from the bottom of the wheels.

2.1.6. May use axle slots or drilled holes for axle placement.

- The wheelbase must be 4-3/8" center to center axle
- No less than 7/8" from end of body
- No more than 1-3/4" on the opposite end of body

2.2 Weight

2.2.1. Weight not to exceed 5 ounces (143 grams) measured on official scale.

2.2.2. No loose materials of any kind are permitted in or on the car.

2.3 Axles

2.3.1. Minimum diameter .084

2.4 Wheels

2.4.1. Only BSA wheels may be used

2.4.2 May be sanded, polished, CnCed or lathed to remove mold casting burs, imperfections, edge of tread surface and to true the roundness

2.4.3 The tread / contact surface must remain flat and parallel to the bore as humanly possible

2.4.4 The small detailed marks on the edge of the wheels must remain visible around the entire circumference

2.4.5 No Angling, Reshaping, Round Crowning, Tapering, H-ing, V-ing, Dishing, the outside of the wheels and / or tread surface

2.4.6 No removing or reducing the letters or spokes

2.4.7 No less than 7.50mm tread width

2.4.8 No drilling additional holes

2.4.9 No additional weight reduction is allowed other than hub reducing

2.4.10 Wheel covers may be used only if entire wheel is visible

2.4.11 Axles & Wheels must be installed to the side of the car body at no more than a 45 degree angle

2.4.12 There must be at least four wheels on the car attached directly to axle and spin freely, however it is not required that all four wheels make contact with the track surface.

2.5 Lubrication

2.5.1 Cars are to be lubricated before inspection/registration. No other lubrication will be permitted.

2.6 Miscellaneous

2.6.1 The following modifications are forbidden:

- Springs
- Magnets
- Starting or finish line devices or propellants
- Electronic or lighting devices
- Glass or extremely fragile parts
- Liquids, wet paint, oil, sticky substance, or powders of any kind (other than axle lubrication)
- Bearings / Bushings
- Any part of the car to go beyond the starting peg
- Axles and wheels attached to any device that mechanically or alters rotation and spin

3.0 INSPECTION

3.1 Each car must pass inspection by the Inspection Team at each event before it may compete. The Inspection Team has the right to disqualify any car that does not meet the rules and specifications. Drivers will be informed of any violations and will be given an opportunity to fix the specified violations.

3.2 The Inspection Team will weigh all cars at registration. The readings of the Official Race Scale will be considered final. Race car drivers and their pit crews must be prepared to adjust weight to meet the readings of the Official Race Scale.

3.3 Cars can be re-inspected at any time. If the car does not meet the rules and specifications, it must be brought into compliance before its next race or it will be disqualified. If a car is found to not meet the rules and specifications after the last race is run the car will be disqualified. All disqualified cars scores will be removed from the record. A minimum of five minutes will be allowed for a driver (or his pit crew) to bring his car into compliance if a problem is found during a race.

3.4 Once cars have been registered, weighed, and inspected, they will remain in the custody of the Race Officials until the end of the competition.

3.5. Pinewood Derby Cars with wet paint or glue will not be accepted for inspection.

4.0 RACE TRACK

4.1 Only drivers racing in or staging for a race, race officials, or members of the Track Team will be permitted in the track area. Other people may be allowed in the track area when specifically approved by the race officials.

4.2 Each driver shall handle only his own car. A driver may be disqualified if he touches or handles another driver's car.

4.3 Each race will be announced and drivers will be called to the track area.

4.4 Drivers will choose or be assigned lanes by a random choice method.

4.5 Drivers will report to the starting line when the Starter tells them to and will place their cars on the appropriate lane. Drivers will be allowed 15 seconds to align their car on the track.

4.6 The Starter will ensure all cars are on the track lanes properly. Cars may be re-adjusted for proper placement at the direction of the Starter. Cars may not protrude beyond the starting post

4.7 If a car leaves the track, runs out of its lane, interferes with another car, loses an axle, etc., the race will be rerun. If the same car gets into trouble on the second run, the car automatically loses the race. The Race Officials will decide, by majority vote, if a car can continue to race after it has these types of problems in two consecutive runs.

4.8 If a car suffers a mechanical problem during a race (loses an axle, breaks a wheel, etc.), the driver or his pit crew will have up to five minutes to fix the car. The driver will then be allowed to race his car. If repairs cannot be made in this time frame, the car will be disqualified.

4.9 If a car suffers a mechanical problem after a race, the driver or his pit crew will have five minutes or until the next race to fix the car. If repairs cannot be made in this time frame, the car will be disqualified.

[rpcarpe]

Maybe I'm confused...
'OPEN' means any age group?

IMHO, cut it down to 10 or fewer simple rules. Maybe these aren't all experienced builders and may not have calipers to measure the axles?

Try these...

The purpose of the Pinewood Derby is to provide a positive experience for the organization, the parents and the child with the emphasis on the child.

1. You must use official BSA Pinewood Derby bodies, wheels and axles. Use of pre-cut bodies is prohibited. BSA Grand Prix Pinewood Derby wheels and axles that have been altered and re-sold by third parties are prohibited.

2. Weight: 5.00 ounces or less. The official scale is final.

3. Dimensions: Length: 7 inches maximum, Width: 2.75” maximum, Height 4” maximum. Must clear 3/8” high center guide.. Car wheels must be at least 1 5/8” apart to straddle a center guide.

4. Gravity powered only. No power assist devices such as rubber bands or magnets.

5. No additional items may be added to the wheels or axles such as washers, springs, bearings, bushings, o-rings, etc.

6. Wheel diameters cannot be increased, axle diameters cannot be decreased.

7. Lubrication cannot leak or foul the track.

8. Teams compete with combined averages times. Best average wins.

9. Cars will be checked in by the participant, and only handled by the participant.

10. The winning racer in each category must (upon presentation of the award), give a short speech on their best speed secrets. The number of winners who must talk is a committee decision.

Innovate and Educate, Don't Legislate!

[FatSebastian]

I am proposing the following rules for our Pinewood Derby OPEN fundraiser event.

How do you propose to raise funds using a Pinewood Derby? If you are, for example, charging a registration fee, then one of the rules should be that the fee must be paid.

By "open", do you simply mean "other than Cub Scouts"?

[*5 J's*]

rp/FS - thanks for taking a look. I especially like the Innovate and Educate, Don't Legislate!

By OPEN I mean open to all EXCEPT current scouts. I am targeting parents, local business, and siblings.

To participate you must pay an entry fee. No I don't have it as a rule, but it will be in the literature with the enrty form.

I do want to allow pre-cut bodies and BSA "replica axles", such as the Nickel plated ones that can be fast without any work. Last year many business stated they were interested, but didn't have time to build a car. I want to sell "kits" with precut and drilled blocks, nickel plated axles, wheels, and lead "rope" weight for under $10. You do not HAVE to use the kit, but they will be avaialable for those that just want to light sand - install weight - paint - install axles/wheels, and with minimal tuning will have a fairly competive car. The intent is to get folks to participate.

I may even have the Boy Scouts assemble some car to sell at cost for businesses to purchase.

[FatSebastian]

To participate you must pay an entry fee.

A bit off-topic, but I would be curious to know the anticipated fee schedule, in case others want to try something similar? Would businesses pay a higher fee, and if so, would those racers enter a separate category?

I once belonged to a Pack that, as their "derby fundraiser", sold their extra PWD kits for the sibling races for ~$1 more than the Pack's purchase price. It never raised much money. Concessions - that's where the money was made!

[rpcarpe]

Pre-cut kits are okay... but 1/2 the fun is doing the cutting and sanding yourself!

FS got it right, the profits are in the concessions! Hold it during meal time, sell food and drinks during a scheduled down time or car judging or whatever.

[*5 J's*]

To participate you must pay an entry fee.

A bit off-topic, but I would be curious to know the anticipated fee schedule, in case others want to try something similar? Would businesses pay a higher fee, and if so, would those racers enter a separate category?

I once belonged to a Pack that, as their "derby fundraiser", sold their extra PWD kits for the sibling races for ~$1 more than the Pack's purchase price. It never raised much money. Concessions - that's where the money was made!

Last year the fee was $10 for an individual and $25 for a business. Yes we made a fair deal of money on concessions - but made most of the money off the OPEN - plus it was a lot of fun for the all. I should note that the OPEN is held the night before the Pinewood Derby. This forces us to have everything up and running the night before - which worked out well.

Last year we sold the official BSA kits for an even $5 or 81 cents over cost after tax, however, we were told that this is not allowed per BSA rules - we had to offer an 81 cent refund to all people, though they all "donated" the difference.

[*5 J's*]

Pre-cut kits are okay... but 1/2 the fun is doing the cutting and sanding yourself!

FS got it right, the profits are in the concessions! Hold it during meal time, sell food and drinks during a scheduled down time or car judging or whatever.

I agree - but if helps to get greater participation - I'm fine with precut kits.

[jospoika]

Hi everyone
 
I'm coming up to running our 3rd annual Pinewood Derby (PD) in Geelong, Victoria, Australia. Last time during preparations for our 2nd Annual PD, we (the committee and I) introduced an 'open' race but called it 'The Outlaw Race'. We restricted this to adults only, as we had a few adults that wanted more than the kid’s race. To begin with, they wanted more speed, more weight and more freedom from some of our race rules.
 
However we still prohibited the following:
 
Flammable liquids, bottle‐rocket engines, Nitrous‐Oxide equipment, nuclear‐based power cells and/or energy sources, space crystals, Kryptonite, cars that deploy parachutes to slow down, any equipment patented by NASA engineers, lead‐based paints, and cars that require “warning” or “caution” stickers. Please avoid ridiculous weights, dripping oils, metal wheels or potentially damaging components (Adapted from Pack 946 - original author unknown http://friscoscouts946.com/Special/PinewoodDerby.aspx" target="_blank).

We charged an extra $5.00 AUD for any car entering the outlaw race, and I was very surprised to see my own car Achmed ( http://www.web206.iitdesigns.com.au/?page_id=2" target="_blank ), win the 2009 event.
 
For our 2011 race, we are planning to open a new Outlaw class just for kids. This class will have no extra race fee charge and the kids will be able to race their previously made cars for fun. They will also be able to re-work, add weight etc. their cars before this race. For us, it is about the fun, not the money.

Cheers

Jocelyn (aka jospoika)

[FatSebastian]

Jocelyn! Looking forward to your continuing participation with Derby Talk!

[*5 J's*]

Welcome to DerbyTalk Jocelyn. I checked out your website - very nice.

[gpraceman]

Hello Jocelyn,

I'm glad that you jumped into the Derby Talk fray. I hope Pinewood Derby really catches on in Australia. Then I'd have a real good excuse to make a business trip down there.

It is curious that the Down and Derby movie is called Racing Ace down in your parts.

Keep up the good work on your website.

God Bless,

Randy

[jospoika]

Thank you FatSebastian, *F J's*, and gpraceman (Randy) for your gracious welcome!

I look forward to learning more and more about the Pinewood from this discussion board

Sometimes I feel slightly out of my depth that I don't know anything - we've had some obstacles here, but I intend to keep trying and keep going!

Thanks again for the very warm welcome!

Cheers
Jocelyn