Thoughts on these rules.

[Daddu]

Every year the company I work has held a pine-car race for charity. Last year we raised $18000 for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
This year we are going to make the rules a little more stricter to make the playing field a little more "even". Tha rules are the same as Scout rules with two exceptions.
1. you may modify the axles to your hearts content,as long as they are BSA axles.
2, You have to use current BSA wheels as supplied with the "kit"and there will be NO MODIFICATIONS to the wheels at all, Nothing!!!
This is because there are some builders who have less skills at building than some, no most of the "scouts". And there are those who know every little trick in the book.
Any thoughts on these two exceptions?
There will be replacement wheels available.

[Mike Parrish]

If the race is for charity, I think that the wheel rule would be easy to enforce and since everyone will be held to it, there should be no "judgement calls" that need made.

[TurtlePowered]

Every year the company I work has held a pine-car race for charity. Last year we raised $18000 for the Make-A-Wish Foundation.
This year we are going to make the rules a little more stricter to make the playing field a little more "even". Tha rules are the same as Scout rules with two exceptions.
1. you may modify the axles to your hearts content,as long as they are BSA axles.
2, You have to use current BSA wheels as supplied with the "kit"and there will be NO MODIFICATIONS to the wheels at all, Nothing!!!
This is because there are some builders who have less skills at building than some, no most of the "scouts". And there are those who know every little trick in the book.
Any thoughts on these two exceptions?
There will be replacement wheels available.

No wheel sanding at all sounds a little severe. Some wheels out of the box have a pretty big dimple on them.

How are you making that much money with a pinewood derby?

[Darin McGrew]

If the race is for charity, I think that the wheel rule would be easy to enforce and since everyone will be held to it, there should be no "judgement calls" that need made.

True. It's easy to enforce.

But I don't think it necessarily makes the playing field more even. It just changes the nature of the unevenness. Rather than rewarding those who know how to remove manufacturing irregularities in stock wheels, the new rule rewards those who pay extra to get a matched set of stock wheels with minimal irregularities.

I started a thread on this issue a while back: http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=253

[Daddu]

Darren wrote

But I don't think it necessarily makes the playing field more even. It just changes the nature of the unevenness. Rather than rewarding those who know how to remove manufacturing irregularities in stock wheels, the new rule rewards those who pay extra to get a matched set of stock wheels with minimal irregularities.

True, but it makes more of the racing closer.
The company I work for is one of the Big Three auto makers and we have approx 200-250 "vehicles that race and/or show.
Of course monetary "donations" on the cars does happen.

[TurtlePowered]

Darren wrote

But I don't think it necessarily makes the playing field more even. It just changes the nature of the unevenness. Rather than rewarding those who know how to remove manufacturing irregularities in stock wheels, the new rule rewards those who pay extra to get a matched set of stock wheels with minimal irregularities.

True, but it makes more of the racing closer.
The company I work for is one of the Big Three auto makers and we have approx 200-250 "vehicles that race and/or show.
Of course monetary "donations" on the cars does happen.

So you are getting around $70 per car. Must have a lot of generous emploees. Do the scouts run the events or do they just participate?

[Daddu]

No scouts at all. Just employees. Some have brought in their childs car and raced it. kits are $5.00. Let me say there is also a raffle, dunk the boss tank, ice cream,food, The pine-cars are the main draw though. Now remember we are dealing with alot of auto engineers, thus the rule changes for this year.

[TurtlePowered]

No scouts at all. Just employees. Some have brought in their childs car and raced it. kits are $5.00. Let me say there is also a raffle, dunk the boss tank, ice cream,food, The pine-cars are the main draw though. Now remember we are dealing with alot of auto engineers, thus the rule changes for this year.

If you are concerned about lathing and since you are at a car plant, maybe you could specify minimum wheel tread that you could measure with a micrometer. That way they could smooth the wheels and you could specify a width that lathing would exceed.

[Daddu]

We are using two 6 lane tracks, They look to be Marine grade plywood. smooth running, 32' long, 4foot drop. that's all I know and I'm sticking to it.

[Daddu]

No scouts at all. Just employees. Some have brought in their childs car and raced it. kits are $5.00. Let me say there is also a raffle, dunk the boss tank, ice cream,food, The pine-cars are the main draw though. Now remember we are dealing with alot of auto engineers, thus the rule changes for this year.

If you are concerned about lathing and since you are at a car plant, maybe you could specify minimum wheel tread that you could measure with a micrometer. That way they could smooth the wheels and you could specify a width that lathing would exceed.

We did specify... No wheel modifications at all. (sorry MAXV)
I'm not at a car plant it's an engineering building.
Some of the people don't have the tools/resources/knowledge to modify the wheels.

[Daddu]

cool I'm at 5 count them 5 posts,
opps now it's 6. and all in one topic.

[Darin McGrew]

Some of the people don't have the tools/resources/knowledge to modify the wheels.

In a youth-ministry context, I'd encourage you to make the tools/resources/knowledge available during derby workshops. But that's not the context of your derby.

Unequal tools/resources/knowledge will still be an issue with your new rule. You're just replacing "modifying the wheels" with "obtaining perfect stock wheels". There are places that sort stock wheels and sell matched sets (at a premium, of course). Or you can buy multiple sets of wheels and sort them yourself.

The main advantage of your new rule is that it's easy to enforce. Assuming that your inspectors can tell the difference between a stock wheel and a carefully modified wheel that looks stock, of course.

[Daddu]

Darren, the judges, myself included, know all the mods/tricks to do to the wheels so we are in a good position to enforce the rule.
And yes we do expect "disgruntled" people, that is why we made up the rules before the event was officially announced, to make people aware of the changes.
By the way, there is going to be a 5oz modified class where wheel modifications are allowed. And a 10oz open class.
I took 2nd last year in the 10oz class. I Can elaborate on the specs of the car if necessary.

[Darin McGrew]

Darren [sic], the judges, myself included, know all the mods/tricks to do to the wheels so we are in a good position to enforce the rule.

I'd expect you to catch wheels that are reshaped. But your new rule goes beyond that, and prohibits any modifications whatsoever. That's a much more difficult standard to enforce.

And yes we do expect "disgruntled" people, that is why we made up the rules before the event was officially announced, to make people aware of the changes.

Be sure to advertize the change heavily. Don't just advertise the new rule, but advertise the way it is different from last year's rules.

[Stan Pope]

As written it might even prohibit burnishing the bore. Difficult to inspect, tho.