Changing the racing schedule and trophies

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rkibby
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Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by rkibby » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:36 pm

Looking for some opinions and thoughts on changing our race schedule and trophy hand out.

This will be my 4th year running our Packs Derby. I've changed things each year to improve it every year, this year I'm going to make a big change.


Instead if each den racing and the others sitting around and waiting, this year ill race everyone together. I've found in the software how to do it and still keep the dens separate in the scoring. I also want to add a finals. where all 4 winners of each den race in the finals.

My thoughts of do this add more boys going home with trophies, and keeps all the dens involved. In the old way of doing it only 12 boys got trophies for placing 1st thru 3rd. If i add the finals I can add 4 more trophies, and in the dens the boy that got 4th place that never got a trophy now gets third since I'm moving all den winners to finals.

anyone have this at there pack? does it work well? did your parents take the change well?

I know I can just make each den 1st thru 4th but since everyone is racing together I'd like to keep that race idea going.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Ickabod » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:55 pm

Our pack does something similar. We run all the cars together not by den, then based on those results we award 1-3 place den trophies and if a boy won 1-3 in the pack, then he doesn't get a en trophy and it goes to the 4th place in the den. We do not run a final race, just result of the original 4 track times.


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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Scoremaker » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:16 pm

This year we are going to race everyone at one time.Then we will take the top three in each club and race for the grand champion traveling trophy the winner will bring it back for next year race.Trophy we hand out speed and design but we don't let one person take home more than two trophies only one trophy. Speed trophy over rules the design but we ask the parent which one he wants if he wins both.I have a lot of parents happy that someone is not going home with more than two trophies I also say that in my rules. It works and change is always good with your pinewood derby. One more thing when I said only one trophy some district will only let you do one event not both.So why not just give that trophy to next place winner.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by rkibby » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:49 am

Scoremaker wrote:One more thing when I said only one trophy some district will only let you do one event not both.So why not just give that trophy to next place winner.
Wont let you do both events? what events are you referring too?

The thoughts on how I want to do this race this year, each boy that wins a trophy will only get one. All first place winners move to the finals and those 4 will place 1st thru 4th in the finals, leaving the 2nd thru 4th place winners in each den getting the 1st thru 3rd place trophies in there dens. I'll be able to hand out 16 trophies instead of 12. The other big bonus for us is I believe racing everyone together will help with boredom for the younger boys. It forces them to pay attention, because at anytime they could be up racing. Also the week before the race all cars must be turned into me, during that time I will take a picture of every car and put it with there name in the system, so when they are up to race the picture of there car will show next to there name. I'm sure they will get a kick out of that too. I'm getting to know this GPRM software. :)



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by FatSebastian » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:44 am

rkibby wrote:anyone have this at there pack? does it work well? did your parents take the change well?
We've belonged to units that have raced each way (by rank and mixed). Mixing seems to be preferable for many of the reasons you mention.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Scoremaker » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:57 pm

rkibby wrote:Wont let you do both events? what events are you referring too?
Both events are Speed and Design

What I mean District or Council Race's will only allow you pick one not both event's. But it may depend on your District/Council so you might want to call and find out. I know in our District/Council race's they will only let you do only one event not both Speed or Design so you need to pick which one your Scout want to be in.
Scoremaker wrote:One more thing when I said only one trophy some district will only let you do one event not both.So why not just give that trophy to next place winner.
That's why I said why not move up the next place winner so that Scout can go to District race's and if he win's then he goes on to Council Race's the finals the best of the best



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by rkibby » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Scoremaker wrote:
rkibby wrote:Wont let you do both events? what events are you referring too?
Both events are Speed and Design

What I mean District or Council Race's will only allow you pick one not both event's. But it may depend on your District/Council so you might want to call and find out. I know in our District/Council race's they will only let you do only one event not both Speed or Design so you need to pick which one your Scout want to be in.
Scoremaker wrote:One more thing when I said only one trophy some district will only let you do one event not both.So why not just give that trophy to next place winner.
That's why I said why not move up the next place winner so that Scout can go to District race's and if he win's then he goes on to Council Race's the finals the best of the best

Our District event anyone from the Packs can enter to race and there is no design, its race only. As for our Council, the famous Mid-America Council in Omaha they have Scout racing, qualified scout racing, Kids and Adult racing, and lastly the Pro division. Thats why I was a little confused with the "both events" we dont do that around here. ;)



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Ickabod » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:09 pm

rkibby wrote:Our District event anyone from the Packs can enter to race and there is no design, its race only. As for our Council, the famous Mid-America Council in Omaha they have Scout racing, qualified scout racing, Kids and Adult racing, and lastly the Pro division. Thats why I was a little confused with the "both events" we dont do that around here. ;)
Yes, I am glad that MAC added a qualified scout race this year. I think that helped our district come to the realization that they should hold a derby also. They didn't have one last year.


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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Rukkian » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:56 am

There are a couple ways of doing the scheduling. I personally like running the boys only racing their peers during the rank races, but like to use the master scheduling option so that it will mix the races, so at any time, you could still be racing, and there is not a big wait after your 6 races.

I think this helps keep the boys involved, and not wandering off, while still allowing them to race their friends and peers.

I did this for our new pack last year, and while mainly well received, I had one leader this year say we should not do this, and to go back to all tiger races, then wolves, etc as that was how they have always done it.

As far as the trophies go, I am of the opinion that giving the first place trophy to somebody that got 2nd place, seems kindof silly. Why not just not buy a first place trophy?

I personally like to move 2-3 per rank to the finals, as 2nd place (or even 3rd) in one den maybe the 2nd or 3rd fastest for pack, and should get a chance to compete. I am getting design trophies for the pack for the first time this year, but am not allowing scouts to win both, however for speed, I think that if they win den and pack, they should get one for both. IMHO, pack should be a bigger award of some sort.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by rpcarpe » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:22 pm

For the past three years, we've been racing all at the same time, but we score it Den vs. Den.
Fastest Den wins the biggest, best trophy... our Big Wrench (3' long wrench).
Individual awards are small trophies handed out before the big one.

Racing Den vs Den allows 1/3 (if racing Wolves, Bears, Webelos) of the Pack to go home as 'The Winners'.
Plus it encourages sharing of knowledge and resources.


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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Topspin.D » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:26 am

We're running all ranks and open class class cars together this year. We'll award medals for the top 3 from each den.

The fastest 16 cubs (irrespective of rank) will move to the pack championship round. The top 3 from the finals will get trophies.

We'll also be awarding a "best in show" design trophy this year. Top 3 championship cars cannot win the design award.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by birddog » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:53 pm

Although I think running the ranks mixed (but still giving out trophies on a per rank basis) keeps the crowd and kids engaged through the entire derby, I do think it would hurt some families' ability to plan for their day. We have families who must make decisions about what other events to cancel or attend, depending on availability. For example, my son has a basketball game that he intends to miss in order to attend the derby. He has other friends in his den who are giving the basketball game priority and letting their car run without them present at the derby. Everybody has to make a choice, but if you know when you'll be racing, it can sometimes allow kids to do both events (we have some in that category as well).

Our race (about 50 scouts and 20 open division racers) begins at 11am and ends by 2:30pm, including a 30 minute break for lunch.

We run tigers first, then wolves, bears and webelows. The older kids have more patience and can wait their turn. The younger ones can see their cars run and then leave early if they don't make it into the finals or have other things going on that day (although it is discouraged, the families appreciate the option).

We also give out 7 design awards which are announced 1/2 way through the race. The cubs vote on the categories themselves. Other than me telling the vote counters to not allow my son to win a design award (as he always wins speed awards), we don't have any rule that says you cannot win both.

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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Speedster » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:00 am

We race by Den in my Pack. The scouts want to race their peers and they don't have to wait very long between races. Each Den is assigned a check in time and race time. We have no Pack race. The day ends with the "OUTLAW" race which is always the biggest race. Our District races this same way.

There are 2 other Packs that have joined together and use our new track. Everyone races together. I don't care for the system. All the scouts line up for check in the morning of the race. It's too crowded, too noisy, and we don't have stadium seating. People after the second row of chairs can't see anything, including the scouts. We race Elapsed Time and it is way too long between a scouts race. A scout has no idea whether he's winning or not. All the people and scouts have to be there for the entire time. Thankfully they have no Pack race or Open race. 2013 was my 1st year with them and we received several complaints, during and after the race.



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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Scrollsawer » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:56 am

Our Pack races in divisions segmented by rank. I prefer this format. Furthermore, we race all of the cars (Rank divisions, adult divisions, Open/Unlimited divisions) all mixed together. We emphasize to the scouts that they are 'racing against the clock', not racing against each other. The racer who gets the fastest time 'against the clock' wins.

Our boys realize that if a car comes zooming down the track 3-4 feet in front of everyone else, then it's likely a 7oz. Car running in the 'Unlimited' division. Works great, and keeps all of the Scouts interested throughout the Derby.

Ironically, the hardest time to keep everyone's attention and attendance is during the post-race calculations to award trophies and plaques. I would love ideas on how to entertain the crown during this phase (which can take 20 minutes or so to conduct). Not sure running the adults during this time would hold the boys' attention, but who knows??

I'm thinking of some Cubmaster-led agenda item that actively engages the boys.

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Re: Changing the racing schedule and trophies

Post by Topspin.D » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:57 am

Running all classes together and keeping the time between heats to a minimum makes the PWD go extremely fast. Last year we had the first round done in under an hour (about 50 cars) and then the finals done in under 20 minutes (16 cars). Using the one den at a time format took 2-3 hours... which is way too long IMO.

The only thing I don't like about running all classes together (including open cars) is that the more experienced builders (older ranks) are typically faster (as are open cars) and the younger kids never get a chance to see their cars win a race.

That said the kids are told they're racing the clock not each other and I've build several fill-in cars that are designed to just barely cross the finish line to try to give each kid a chance to beat someone.



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