Big tie-breaking in GPRM

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korey99
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Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by korey99 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:53 pm

Hello all-

I just ran a simulated race, using the GPRM test data feature.

After running the den races, I created a new Grand Finals round. I had it grab the top 4 from each den, which is 16 kids total. To save time, I did a 1-round 3-lane PPN. Unfortunately, as I've been warned, there are a whole bunch of ties, especially for 6th place. I know it might be an artifact of using the test data feature, as opposed to hooling up the timer, but I'm wondering about the tie-breaker rules.

I have the tiebreaker rules enabled, for the top 4, but my standings screen doesn't show any broken ties:

Image


Am I doing something wrong? I had the tiebreaker work for an earlier test I did. If I had the timer hooked up would it fail over to elapsed time? If I had to do a manual tiebreaker, this doesn't look fun.

Thanks,
Korey



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gpraceman
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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by gpraceman » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:07 am

The tiebreaker rules will try to break the tie in order of rule precedence. If one rule fails to break the tie, then it will check the next rule. If none of those rules break the tie, then the racers will remain tied.

While the test data feature in the software will try to give each racer relative strengths, it is still only simulated data.

If you are using a timer with the software, then the final tiebreaker will be finish times. If it comes down to times, it is far less likely that you will end up with ties.


Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

korey99
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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by korey99 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:16 pm

I just thought it was weird to have a 6 way unbroken tie. Does the test data feature establish elapsed times for the races when using points mode? I just didn't expect to have all of the tiebreak rules come up even, and was worried about a misconfiguration.



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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by gpraceman » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:36 pm

korey99 wrote:I just thought it was weird to have a 6 way unbroken tie. Does the test data feature establish elapsed times for the races when using points mode? I just didn't expect to have all of the tiebreak rules come up even, and was worried about a misconfiguration.
The test data feature does a relative ranking of each racer. So the strongest racer in a heat will always get 1st, 2nd strongest will always get 2nd and so on. This assumes a perfect world.

Regardless, you should be prepared in case you need to break a tie. In all likelihood, when using a timer with points scoring, the tiebreaker rules will break the ties, if you choose to employ them.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

korey99
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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by korey99 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:11 pm

I took a careful look at the race results, specifically at 2nd place. Fox beat Gaige head-to-head, and Fox also beat Bryce head-to-head, getting first place in both of those heats. He took 2nd place in his third heat, against two other racers.

Shouldn't the tie-breaker rules have given Fox 2nd place? I have the "apply tie breaker" set in the settings, for the top 7 places.

This is a "grand finals" round, if that matters.



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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by gpraceman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:37 am

For the software we have to think of the worst case scenario.

Racer A beat Racer B head-to-head
Racer B beat Racer C head-to-head
Racer C beat Racer A head-to-head

So, who wins the tiebreaker?

When you get more than two racers that are tied for the same place, the software will not apply the head-to-head tiebreaker rule. We can consider modifying how that rule is applied with more than two tied racers for the next version of the software, but it would add a good deal more complexity to the already complex tie breaking process.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

korey99
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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by korey99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:39 am

Ah, I understand. That makes sense. Thanks- I feel better understanding the logic.

The elapsed time tiebreaker rule will still apply for a 3 way tie though, right?



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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by gpraceman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:48 am

korey99 wrote:The elapsed time tiebreaker rule will still apply for a 3 way tie though, right?
Yes


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

korey99
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Re: Big tie-breaking in GPRM

Post by korey99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:06 am

Great, thanks!



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