No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

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TimInOhio
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No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by TimInOhio » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:45 am

My son and I has no prior access to the track that our Pack will be using for their PWD. They use a Best Track, although the length is unknown. We also have no test track at this time. I'm looking for advice:

Do I build a wooden test track (thinking that a wooden test track is better than no test track)?

Do I somehow attempt to fabricate an approximation of a Best Track track?

Do I just use an aluminum bar (with appropriate center guide rails) that I can both use as a level flat section and as an inclined section to approximate the sloped section of the Best Track?

Some other recommendation?

A test Best Track (#135) is not in the budget for this year, as much as I'd like to have one...

Thanks in advance for any advice.

TimInOhio



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sporty
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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by sporty » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:51 am

wood is to different to compare to a best track.


You are best to going to atempt a set up using a tuning board with a safe drift number.

Sporty



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by 68sportcoupe » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:23 am

what is a safe drift fore a 42ft best track.
and what slope tuning board.
i use the desk in my pinewood dungen.
it has a laminate top and i have one side jacked up but not enough maybe 1" in 6ft.



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by sporty » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:31 am

This is a really good area to talk about.

One of the important areas in all of this, is how you do it.


See, some use a raised board, some do not. Then also you for example, stock wheel base, extended wheel base and somewhere in between.


those things will require a different drift and the same for different tracks.


I do my cars, flat and level on the kitchen floor, not raised. Also how I place the car is a factor.

For me, I set me right rear on the edge of the 4 foot line, and I also place my right front the edge of the line, even though, its been reduced 1/16th of a inch.


So how you do all of this is going to effect your drift at 4 feet. The numbers you are gong to want to use. are effected, by, if you raise the test board or don't, how to stage, set up the car on that board or tuning surface.

So allot of different answers you will get, you have to come up with the same method that someone does, to use there numbers and repeat that process to perfection, in order for it to work for you. So its not as easy as one might think.

Then the cant will also play a bit of a factor also. So you almost have to build your car like theres to use those numbers that work for them. Weight placement is a factor too in this.

So unless you use my process and build cars like I do, My numbers are of not much help to you.

Sporty



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by FatSebastian » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:25 pm

sporty wrote:I do my cars, flat and level on the kitchen floor, not raised.
How do you propel your cars along a flat and level surface?



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by sporty » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:43 pm

I just place my finger on the rear of the car, in the center and give it a light push, It works well and is repeatable, take a few times to get the hang of it, to not effect the cars drift.

But I prefer this method over a raised board for tuning of drift. but whatever the method you prefer or like. You will have to adapt the trial and error of it and drift numbers as well.

I so the simple and cheap route. my kitchen floor. I think woodworx and quadad are still surprised thats how I do it. they have seen it. I do not have to set up or move anything, the only draw back is some marks on the floor that do not come off, but hard to see, until you know they are there or where they are at.



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by FatSebastian » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:48 pm

TimInOhio wrote:Do I build a wooden test track (thinking that a wooden test track is better than no test track)?
I don't disagree with Sporty regarding a tuning surface in lieu of a full-blown track; however, a homemade test track and timer does allow you and your kids to use their cars as they were intended outside the few seconds or minutes of racing during the derby event.

I don't have any experience with metal track racing, but my understanding is that the main difference in tuning is the amount of steer-in required in that the metal track requires less steer-in than a wooden track. Even though the tuning on a wooden track is not optimal for the Besttrack shape or material, having a track (with timer) will likely take your performance and awareness of racing issues to a higher level, and greatly adds to the fun.
sporty wrote:I just place my finger on the rear of the car...
Thanks!



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by sporty » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:59 pm

The issue with RR on a wood track, you can go farther back in weight placement and you need more drift. A aluminuim track, you need less steer, its smoother and the slope to flat is different. There is a bit of debate on weight placement for aluminuim track.

I feel run the same weight placement, and just adjust with drift. But you get into this fine area of super speed. Most cub scout packs / racers ect, do not do enough in the other areas, axle prep, wheel bore prep, wheel works, alignment, ect. to get to this level. A track and timer get you the start to seeing where you are at, what work you need to do. but if you start over tuning to your specific track, then you will be likely slower on another style of track. due to over tuning to one specific track.

Epsecially wood versus aluminuim, different monsters.


Even though I have a wood track and timer, I tune all my cars that are gonna run on aluminuim on my kitchen floor.

Sporty



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by rpcarpe » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:51 am

We've built a new tuning board 4' length. Put it flat between two saw horses, check for level. Roll the cars like Sporty does, then raise one end to see how they roll compared to older (known) cars or a marble.

Might try talking to your Cubmaster or PWD chair, get an hour for the Pack to test & tune on the designated track.
Good Luck!


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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by FatSebastian » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:23 am

Tim, FYI, this topic might also be of some interest if you have not seen it yet.



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by john4840 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:05 pm

TimInOhio wrote:My son and I has no prior access to the track that our Pack will be using for their PWD. They use a Best Track, although the length is unknown. We also have no test track at this time. I'm looking for advice:

Do I build a wooden test track (thinking that a wooden test track is better than no test track)?

Do I somehow attempt to fabricate an approximation of a Best Track track?

Do I just use an aluminum bar (with appropriate center guide rails) that I can both use as a level flat section and as an inclined section to approximate the sloped section of the Best Track?

Some other recommendation?

A test Best Track (#135) is not in the budget for this year, as much as I'd like to have one...

Thanks in advance for any advice.

TimInOhio
Hello Tim

I wanted to respond to you because I was in your shoes last year. My Son and I were able to make a 3 wheel rail rider, with a very agressive COM of 5/8 inch, that won our Pack and District PWD using only a 4 foot test board with a wooden yard stick attached to the test board to simulate the center rail. We have no test track and no way of tuning the car on a track.
He also won this year pack PWD with a 3 wheel rail rider, with an 1/2 inch COM and he will be running it in the distict race this Saturday. He hasn't lost a race in two year, so far. The test board works pretty well for us. BTW Our pack's track is an old wooden track and last years district had a Best Track, his car handled both tracks very well. I do not know if this year district race will wooden or alluminum but I am sure his car will be able to handle either one.

John



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by TimInOhio » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:08 am

FatSebastian wrote:Tim, FYI, this topic might also be of some interest if you have not seen it yet.
Thank you, FatSebastian, for the link.
john4840 wrote:
TimInOhio wrote:My son and I have no prior access to the track that our Pack will be using for their PWD. They use a Best Track, although the length is unknown. We also have no test track at this time. I'm looking for advice:

Do I build a wooden test track (thinking that a wooden test track is better than no test track)?

Do I somehow attempt to fabricate an approximation of a Best Track track?

Do I just use an aluminum bar (with appropriate center guide rails) that I can both use as a level flat section and as an inclined section to approximate the sloped section of the Best Track?

Some other recommendation?

A test Best Track (#135) is not in the budget for this year, as much as I'd like to have one...

Thanks in advance for any advice.

TimInOhio
Hello Tim

I wanted to respond to you because I was in your shoes last year. My Son and I were able to make a 3 wheel rail rider, with a very agressive COM of 5/8 inch, that won our Pack and District PWD using only a 4 foot test board with a wooden yard stick attached to the test board to simulate the center rail. We have no test track and no way of tuning the car on a track.
He also won this year pack PWD with a 3 wheel rail rider, with an 1/2 inch COM and he will be running it in the distict race this Saturday. He hasn't lost a race in two year, so far. The test board works pretty well for us. BTW Our pack's track is an old wooden track and last years district had a Best Track, his car handled both tracks very well. I do not know if this year district race will wooden or alluminum but I am sure his car will be able to handle either one.

John
John, thanks for the advice. I expect to take delivery of some Pro tools within the next couple days, then it's off to the workshop. Thanks again.

Tim



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by sporty » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:24 am

Tim,


I thought john did a great job and reply. I am hoping he will be more active here in helping others.

I will only be around for 1 more year. Then I will move forward. I am hoping he is one, what will take the reigns here in helping others.


Sporty



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by pack529holycross » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:14 am

You may wish to suggest to your race committee that a "tune up" day 1 week prior would benefit THEM as much as the kids. The reason is they break out the track, set it up, and any potential glitches are discovered and corrected prior to race day. This will permit a full test of all equipment, and improve the race day event.

Barring that, try to contact other packs and find out if any are doing tune up days, and if you can attend theirs to tune up your car.

Barring that, see if there is a local PWD league in your area.



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Re: No access to pack track prior to PWD - advice?

Post by john4840 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:26 am

john4840 wrote:John, thanks for the advice. I expect to take delivery of some Pro tools within the next couple days, then it's off to the workshop. Thanks again.

Tim
No problem Tim. I can understand how you feel. My Son's pack leaders are not into the PWD and when we went to our first district 2 years ago I noticed how the other kids car were much better than ours. That when I started to do more research and found DT. Using the information on DT we able to dominate the pack and the districts last year. At district race we beat most of the cars by 3 car lengths or more and the closest was about 1 1/2 car lengths. We beat the second place winner by more than 10 mph and broke the track record twice. What I am saying is if you put the information you learned on DT to good use you have nothing to worry about.



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