Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

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FatSebastian
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Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by FatSebastian »

Several years ago after the kids outgrew derby racing, I sold off my Craftsman variable-speed scroll saw. However, after becoming involved with organizational races and workshops again, it has become apparent that we could really use something like that scroll saw at our workshops to supplement the bandsaw, for curved cuts and inside cuts. No one else helping at the workshops has a benchtop scroll saw. (Others use a coping saw when that kind of capability is needed, but it goes slowly, requires a vise to hold the work, etc.)

I am curious what scrolling options might be recommended today for the derby workshop environment. I think that, for the build-day, a saw would do well to have the following characteristics:

1) Portability - it must be transported to and from the build-day location.

2) Easy blade changes - in the workshop environment, where there is often a queue of folks waiting their turn, efficiency is important if a blade needs changing or disconnection for an interior cut-out.

3) Reasonable balance of price and performance - it is likely that such a saw is only going to get a real workout once per year.

4) Durability / Reliability - a saw doesn't do anyone any good if it is broken down.

5) At least a 2" high working area so a standard block on it side can be cut.

Some other features I would like to see personally, but not priority:

a) The front feet of the base are less than 23" from the rear of the saw, so it can be stored on a 24" workbench countertop yet available for occasional off-season use. (This likely limits to a maximum 16" throat for a conventional benchtop saw.)

b) A low-maintenance tabletop. Our inexpensive 9" bandsaw with an aluminum table is much more enjoyable to use than the previous 10" saw with its iron table that always rusted over during the off-season.

c) Availability - for something like this, it might be good to purchase through a retailer that also has brick-and-mortar storefronts, even if it meant paying a little more, because it would be easier to return / exchange if there was a quality problem or it didn't meet the need in some other way.

d) Optional stand available

Whoda had suggested the WEN LL2156 21 inch 1.6 amp scroll saw if he were in the market to getting a new scroll saw today. I agree that it has impressive features for its price, but I think that its lack of portability and the space it takes up makes it less than ideal for the purpose.

It seem like the WEN 3922 or 3923 might instead be sufficient for the task. I've also since been made aware of the Rockwell BladeRunner X2 Tabletop Saw which appears very lightweight and portable and uses standard t-shank blades, but I am less certain if it can cut curves much tighter than a small bandsaw.

Others' thoughts and experiences?
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

FatSebastian wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:46 pm

b) A low-maintenance tabletop. Our inexpensive 9" bandsaw with an aluminum table is much more enjoyable to use than the previous 10" saw with its iron table that always rusted over during the off-season.
FS, for the Iron table tops.. Johnson paste wax helps keep it from rusting.. and makes it easier for the wood to slide on the iron table top.
I don't think you could go wrong with the Wen scroll saw's models for what you are looking to do with it.
Just know that scroll saws are mechanical tool and they all have there problems and parts will ware out or break down over time and hours used.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by Vitamin K »

I have the Harbor Freight scroll saw which seems like, 95% of the same thing as the Wen model. Overall it's worked pretty well. Gets the job done and gave me a lot of decent cuts. I lost the adapters that let you use plain-end blades, but the blades I wanted were always available with pin-end, so that was fine.

I will say that the little plastic plate that covers the hole around blade is a little janky and never really sits flush with the rest of the cutting platform. Not a HUGE issue, but it comes into play when cutting smaller pieces.
whodathunkit wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:54 pm
FatSebastian wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:46 pm

b) A low-maintenance tabletop. Our inexpensive 9" bandsaw with an aluminum table is much more enjoyable to use than the previous 10" saw with its iron table that always rusted over during the off-season.
FS, for the Iron table tops Johnson paste wax helps keep it from rusting.. and for the wood to slide easier on the top.
I don't think you could go wrong with Wen scroll saw's models for what your looking to do with it.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

Vitamin K wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:23 am I have the Harbor Freight scroll saw which seems like, 95% of the same thing as the Wen model. Overall it's worked pretty well. Gets the job done and gave me a lot of decent cuts. I lost the adapters that let you use plain-end blades, but the blades I wanted were always available with pin-end, so that was fine.

I will say that the little plastic plate that covers the hole around blade is a little janky and never really sits flush with the rest of the cutting platform. Not a HUGE issue, but it comes into play when cutting smaller pieces.
VK, for Alum table tops Put down some clear tape over of the throat plate to hold it down. and to turn it in to a zero clearance throat plate.
If your saw has an Iron table top and plastic throat plate clear tape will work also however tape it is missy when removing for alum and iron tops.
An Idea that works for iron table tops
Is to use a magnetic plastic laminate to cover your table top.. by tracing around the table top to cut the laminate and then poking a hole in the laminate
for the blade to pass threw and close up any gaps for the small parts.
It will stick down.. plus the wood slides good on it and it can be removed easy from the saw with no sticky clean up from the tape residue.
https://www.first4magnets.com/us/a4-she ... |ps_2_1612
For blade chucks for your Central Machinery scroll saw:
https://www.foxbc.com/products/scroll-s ... 4lEALw_wcB

But if your looking to up grade the blade holders to penless blades only and get away from the chucks shown above.
these will fit central machinery saws.. models S5909, 62519, and model 93012.
5-EZ set blade holder.
http://www.pozsgaidesigns.com/page0006.htm
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by FatSebastian »

FatSebastian wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:46 pmWhoda had suggested the WEN LL2156 21 inch 1.6 amp scroll saw if he were in the market to getting a new scroll saw today. I agree that it has impressive features for its price, but I think that its lack of portability and the space it takes up makes it less than ideal for the purpose. It seems like the WEN 3922 or 3923 might instead be sufficient for the task.
So I have come full circle on this and am now reconsidering the WEN LL2156. Reasons:

I have read consumer product reviews of the WEN 3922 and 3923, and similar models, and the biggest complaints are about usability and functionality: the difficulty of changing blades, the fact that pinless blades won't stay in place under tension, excessive vibrations, or broken parts. Models with the built-in LED lights tend to have limited usefulness because the light vibrates so much. It's not clear that WEN offers repair or replacement parts for their entry-level saws (unless it breaks under warranty), or other manufacturers for that matter...

The larger WEN LL2156 and the DeWalt 788 have good reviews, and Whodathunkit (our resident subject-matter expert on scroll saws whose opinion I value) suggests that the WEN would probably be an improvement over the DeWalt for the price. I have reviewed videos of the WEN in use and I like the way that it functions. Parts appear to be available. Yes, it is too much for my intended purposes. But my main objections have been about transportability and storage, not cutting performance. In reality I won't be transporting often - no more frequently than transporting a heavy race track, which we have figured out through experience.

Caveat: WEN doesn't seem to offer a stand like the DeWalt DW7880. (I don't know that the DW7880 fits the WEN, and I am not impressed with the four-legged generic stands as they increase the footprint for what is already a large saw. Sure, I could build a stand, but for the time, trouble and costs involved, I'd rather just buy an available one ...)
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by gpraceman »

FatSebastian wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:24 pmCaveat: WEN doesn't seem to offer a stand like the DeWalt DW7880. (I don't know that the DW7880 fits the WEN, and I am not impressed with the four-legged generic stands as they increase the footprint for what is already a large saw. Sure, I could build a stand, but for the time, trouble and costs involved, I'd rather just buy an available one ...)
You could try the Dewalt stand. If the WEN saw won't fit into the stand, you could cut a piece of wood to sit into the stand and then mount the saw to the wood. Looks very doable.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000022315/
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

FS, I know what your saying .. about when it comes time to store the saw or to move the saw to and from the workshops.
Were are not all 6 ft tall and bullet proof or getting any younger for that matter. These tools are heavy.

When I have a workshop to put on for the kid's.
I have to unbolt my saw from the stand to move it and put it in the bed of a pickup to haul it .. then set it all back up at the workshops and the tear it down once more.
I have been looking for a better way to load and unload it into an enclosed trailer with a ramp so I don't have to keep taring it down and setting it up all the time.

Ran across this link: ( That I'm looking to do for my stand and saw to make it easier to move around in the shop and take to workshops.)
Powertec work bench casters can be mounted on the legs.
https://woodbin.com/doc/retractable-cas ... saw-stand/

https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-17001-W ... 7577&psc=1

The foot print of the Wen scroll saw is larger then the Dewalt scroll saw stand.. so yes a mod to mount the saw will be needed.

For parts for the WEN Scroll saws.
just type in your model number in there search bar for parts:
https://wenproducts.com/products/wen-ll ... teel-table

Thanks for the kind words about my scroll saw knowledge FS.. However I would not call myself a master at it at all..
I I'm just a scroll saw hobbyist if you will.

But maybe Steve Good another well known scroll saw masters opinion and review on the 21in ll256 WEN model. (weight 53.8 pounds)
Would help explain the value you get out of this mid level saw for the cost over some of the other mid level saws brands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg9Z3yhxKH0
The saw that Steve likes to run the most because of the precision and precise cuts..
( For fretwork design cutting) and for changing the front to back motion of the blade ( blade movement while cutting.)
https://www.bearwood.com/pegas-scroll-s ... ziEALw_wcB
This Pegas saw is also a 21 in model it's on the higher end of scroll saw models ( weighs in at 65 pounds ).. made for running non stop use and long hours of cutting sessions.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by FatSebastian »

gpraceman wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:48 pm...you could cut a piece of wood to sit into the stand and then mount the saw to the wood. Looks very doable.
:thumbup: Will definitely give that a try if I pull the trigger on the larger WEN.
whodathunkit wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:08 amPowertec work bench casters can be mounted on the legs.
This is also a very good idea. And it appears that there are brands other than POWERTEC (nearly identical, probably from the same factory) that include the mounting plates that POWERTEC sells separately, for the same price.
whodathunkit wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:08 amI would not call myself a master at it at all. I'm just a scroll saw hobbyist if you will.
Well, whatever the label, you have real experience scrolling with Pinewood Derby in mind, and you have an audience here that values that experience. :bigups:

In contrast, there are lots of "Best of" recommendation lists floating around cyberspace with titles like "Best scroll saws of Year____" split out by odd subcategories like, say, "Best for Woodworking" (presumably to include more purchase links?). By and large they all recommend the same saws, probably because these lists seem to be compiled from online reviews and apparently feed off each other... I don't think they originate from people with much experience with the tools they rate. (The WEN LL2156 is often missing as a "Best of" recommendation, even though it has good reviews.)

BTW, I haven't found a Scroll Saw "Best of" list yet that includes "Best for Building Pinewood Derby Cars", hence this thread. ;) Good feedback thus far!
:thanks:
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

FatSebastian wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:24 pm I have read consumer product reviews of the WEN 3922 and 3923, and similar models, and the biggest complaints are about usability and functionality: the difficulty of changing blades, the fact that pinless blades won't stay in place under tension, excessive vibrations, or broken parts. Models with the built-in LED lights tend to have limited usefulness because the light vibrates so much. It's not clear that WEN offers repair or replacement parts for their entry-level saws (unless it breaks under warranty), or other manufacturers for that matter...
FS, to convert the blade chuck holders for the Wen model's 3920, and 3921: that uses blades holders like the Two - Direction pinned blade chuck.
And the dreaded ..loop holder chuck for the pinless blade's
Seen in the image below.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-3920-Two-Dir ... op?ie=UTF8

The WEN models 3922 and 3923 models: use blade chucks like this: that will cross over.. to the two saw models listed above.
https://wenproducts.com/products/upper- ... ade-holder
Note these chucks use a 4mx 16 hex head screw to tighten the blade that are sold extra and a hex key tool is needed:
https://wenproducts.com/products/3920b- ... 30d7&_ss=r
I would go this route and find a m4 x 16 screw with a Knurled knob: ( to make blade changes faster.) This way you can run both blade types pinned and pinless.
https://www.harfington.com/products/p-1 ... KIQAvD_BwE

Some scrollers will take this route to make there scroll saw blade chucks better or to make it easy for changing and holding the pinless type blades.
However the set screws in these types of chucks do and will get rounded over after time.. and will need to be filed flat on the ends to pinch and hold the blade ..and even replaced.
For those that really crank down on the set screw while tightening the blade in the chuck.. it will bend and spread the blade chuck open.
And then you will have problems holding the blade in the set screws as there no longer in line with one another/ or flat to one other to even hold the blade.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by FatSebastian »

whodathunkit wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:54 pmJohnson paste wax helps keep it from rusting.. and makes it easier for the wood to slide...
FWIW, it appears that Johnson Paste Wax was discontinued beginning in 2022! Too bad ... :shake:
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Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023 - Follow Up

Post by FatSebastian »

So I went with the WEN LL2156. Physically it is one yard in length, but it is not nearly as difficult to transport as I imagined it would be - there are lots of places to grab hold and the weight is spread out. I've only lightly tested its operation thus far because I have not finished mounting it securely; yet it appears to have good alignment and smooth operation (not too much vibration) - way better than our former 16" Craftsman.

The finish of its steel table leaves something to be desired though: it has a durable coating (metallic enamel paint?) but there are raised debris specks embedded in it, large enough that you can catch on them with a fingernail running across the tabletop. Probably doesn't matter for Pinewood Derby purposes but I'd otherwise worry about these imperfections possibly scratching softer materials. Also the table has what looks (and feels) like a residual weld seam in the original metal stock that the table was made from, that didn't quite polish out when they machined it. This recess doesn't actually interfere with material movement - it is just obvious and ugly.

So the "scroll saw stand" I ended up with was purchased locally from Harbor Freight: the Braun Portable Clamping Workstation SKU #58123 (also sold under the brand name "Franklin" with SKU #64827). These may not be available for much longer: it was labeled as a clearance item and was discounted to $99 at the time of this writing, and they are only available from HF retail store shelves. It seems identical in manufacture to the Ridgid Superclamp, which has also been discontinued. (Comparable - but not identical - clamping-workstation products on the market include the original Triton Super Jaws, Rockwell JawHorse, and WEN Portable Clamping Saw Horse.) I can rest the entire scroll saw lengthwise on the portable clamping workstation when the clamp is extended +30", and the scroll-saw table working height is then about 42" with this set-up, which is a comfortable height for a standing adult. The workstation folds up nicely for transportation, plus I can use the workstation for other projects when not scroll sawing, and the clearance pricing was not that much more than a dedicated scroll-saw stand. My intention is to bolt the scroll saw to a wooden horizontal platform and then clamp the wooden platform on the workbench. (The base of the saw cannot be clamped directly because front and rear are separate, hinged segments that will arch if squeezed.) It is easy to separate the clamped saw from the workstation, which makes the whole arrangement portable - a desirable feature for a saw to be transported to/from workshops.

I also ordered the DeWalt DW7880 scroll-saw stand at the same time as the saw, with the idea of making an adapter for it per gpraceman's suggestion. However, I immediately returned it; that stand arrived slightly bent, was heavier and clunkier than I thought it would be, and its adaptation to the slightly larger WEN saw base was going to require more effort than I wanted to invest. The clamping workstation's tripod configuration is inherently more stable than the scroll saw stand, and is more transportable.

I appreciate the feedback and especially the suggestion of the WEN LL2156 by Whodathunkit!
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

FatSebastian wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:41 am
whodathunkit wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:54 pmJohnson paste wax helps keep it from rusting.. and makes it easier for the wood to slide...
FWIW, it appears that Johnson Paste Wax was discontinued beginning in 2022! Too bad ... :shake:
Well that's news to me did not know this.. thanks for the info!

Guess I will have to go with Beaumont Trewax clear paste wax for keeping my table top waxed.. when I use up the can of Johnson wax.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beaumont-Tre ... pAQAvD_BwE

( You will want to use a non-silicone based paste wax on your table top !)
Because silicone wax's will get into the poor's of metal and then find its way to your wood missing up your stains and finishes.

EDIT:
Image
here is a tip for really making your table top slick .. so the wood will have less friction while feeding the saw or turning the wood.
paste wax first let dry and buff of then take some lemon Pledge and spray it and wipe off. ( you'll have a super slick table top and a much easier time as the wood will glide on it.)

I do hope the WEN scroll saw work's out for you.. so let the Good Time's Scroll FS!

When you get to ware you are making interior cuts on the scroll saw..
I hope that you'll let me know if you become a top feeder or a bottom feeder... I my self I'm a bottom feeder FS.
With the safety / dust port doors on the WEN saw I'd say.. Bottom feeder.

(Bottom feeding!)
Meaning I leave the cutting blade clamped in the bottom chuck and feed the blade threw the bottom side of the work and then re- clamp the blade to the top chuck.

(Top feeding!)
Some like to feed the cutting blade threw from the other direction leaving the cutting blade clamped in top chuck and passing it threw the top side of the work to the bottom blade chuck.

There is nothing wrong with doing it either way it's all a personal preference thing among scrollers . ;)

https://youtu.be/wMo5o9CGVe4

FS, these link's may help you out.. with the paint bumps on your saws coated table top.

https://youtu.be/_3oXvyrbNTw
And a very cheep and neat way to store and keep all your cutting blades organized:

https://youtu.be/hQy7hBnRG34
Then there is this one that would make for a really cool blade storage rack project.
https://www.rockler.com/scroll-saw-blade-caddy-plan
which reminds me I also need to make a better storage rack for scroll saw blades.

And FS.. Please do share with us a few pic's of your new scroll saw and some of your handy work's.. As I would enjoy seeing your projects.
Whoda.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

Well FS,
I will be joining you on getting the WEN ll2156 scroll saw model also.. ( I'm in need of having a good back up scroll saw ! )

As my 2007 DeWalt type 2 has been a very good scroll saw for me.. and has served me well over the years.
It has lots of hours on it now.. way to many hours to count guess I should have looked into installing an hour meter on it back then to have kept track of the total hours.
I just done the maintenance on it went threw it all replacing and repacking all the needle bearings and sleeves with Valvoline synthetic grease.
Getting things fixed and re -lubed and tightened back up hoping it will give the saw a few more years of service life.

The idea of having a 2nd scroll saw to fall back on when one is being worked on or broke down .. well had me pull the trigger on getting it.
I also went with the WEN WA0392 foot pedal control for the saw.

I can't wait to see some pic's of your stand and what you came up with to make it portable for the pinewood derby workshops.

I wish I would have known of this Tacklife work station for saws.. before hand FS, as I would have shared it with you had I known about it!

I just ran across this work station stand today while looking for a scroll saw stand and it's the route I took for one.
I don't think I'll be using the rollers while scrolling .. but might for the different saws
https://www.venuen.shop/product/saw-sta ... g-machine/
And a link to a review of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqh_t0v85dk
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by FatSebastian »

whodathunkit wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:41 amI can't wait to see some pic's...
I'll need to figure out who can host pics again; I don't use Photobucket anymore... maybe imgur...
whodathunkit wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:41 amI wish I would have known of this Tacklife work station for saws...
I am not sure that the tabletop of that particular stand is large / wide enough to fit the WEN without adding to the platform (the LL2156 front and rear feet are separated by about 30", while that table looks to be about two feet wide).
whodathunkit wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:11 pmWith the safety / dust port doors on the WEN saw I'd say.. Bottom feeder.
Agree. While the bottom chuck may be easier to reach than some saws, it is still hard to see under the table...
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Re: Scroll Saw Recommendations for 2023?

Post by whodathunkit »

Tacklife table is 30.31 inches x 21.26 inches x 6.69 inches folded..
The Wen scroll saw is 36 1/2x 16x 17 3/4. ( un-sure of the measurements for the bolt holes in the saw front to back !)

Yeah, I thought of this and this Oklahoma Sandhill Hillbilly / Farm Boy !
Has the metal.. a chop saw, cutting torch, plasma cutter, wire welder, grinders, and a plan to use some square tube to make a new holder.
Using one end of the extend tube in the table roller rails support.. to set the back side of the saw on.
Anyway FS, that's my plan of attack to make it work with out welding anything to the table.
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