New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

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mi26
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New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by mi26 »

I’m a first year cub scout dad – so first year helping my son. I’m looking to help him and coach him through but want to make sure his car is at least competitive. I’ve watched videos/read articles on this – smoothing axles, use weights, etc. The questions I have:

1. Main thing is the proper steps . What is the typical order? Do I cut first (into a wedge of some sort). Sand. Weigh everything. Apply weights. Paint. Axles/wheels?
2. Do I just hammer the axles/nails into the designated slot? Or should I predrill it? What’s the trick to this…
3. Weight placement : If I use a flat weight – I place it about 1” from rear axle. Do I use a chisel to chisel out a portion on the bottom? Then add other weights around the back as needed? Such as screws, tungsten putty, tungsten tape, etc?
Or do I chisel out a small section (see a pic of someones car I saw online of something similar).
Image
Or (see additional pic) should I drill 2 holes next to each rear axle and put cylinder weights inside ?
https://imgur.com/a/Odl67A5__;!!Hp-lr4Z ... bisd4FqFpA$

Appreciate any advice. Thanks!
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FatSebastian
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by FatSebastian »

:welcome:
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am I’m a first year cub scout dad – so first year helping my son. I’m looking to help him and coach him through but want to make sure his car is at least competitive. I’ve watched videos/read articles on this – smoothing axles, use weights, etc.
What you do, and how you do it, is going to depend a lot on what tools you have available, and the car design. You mention "wedge", which is a relatively fast and simple design, and an admirable choice for a first car. :bigups:

What we did for one of our very first (fast) cars: a simple wedge with the right amount lead (Pb) bullet (slip) fishing weights glued horizontally on the top rear to reach nearly 5.0 ounces.
Image

To be "competitive", lubrication may be the biggest speed enhancement you can make. I have seen cars perfectly weighted come in dead last because the owner forgot to lubricate.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am1. Main thing is the proper steps . What is the typical order? Do I cut first (into a wedge of some sort). Sand. Weigh everything. Apply weights. Paint. Axles/wheels?
This free ebook, though a marketing tool for certain products, does have a lot of good ideas on how to proceed.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am2. Do I just hammer the axles/nails into the designated slot? Or should I predrill it? What’s the trick to this…
Are you required to use the stock slots? If you predrill a slot, you risk having very loose axles. I'd suggest using an axle guide which I have also found available locally at Hobby Lobby. The "trick" is to not push your axles in too far, binding the wheels.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am Or do I chisel out a small section (see a pic of someones car I saw online of something similar).
The picture links aren't showing up ("imgur down" error), but you need to chisel out for a plate if it is on the bottom to maintain sufficient clearance.
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by gpraceman »

The weights that I like are the ones to weigh wheels for real cars. They can be found on Amazon and at Harbor Freight. They come in 1/4 ounce increments, so it is easy to grab the needed amount. They have double sided adhesive, to make it easy to adhere to the car. They are not as dense as lead or tungsten, so they take up more space, but are far less expensive.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quart ... 67225.html

Image
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
mi26
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by mi26 »

gpraceman wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 3:23 pm The weights that I like are the ones to weigh wheels for real cars. They can be found on Amazon and at Harbor Freight. They come in 1/4 ounce increments, so it is easy to grab the needed amount. They have double sided adhesive, to make it easy to adhere to the car. They are not as dense as lead or tungsten, so they take up more space, but are far less expensive.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quart ... 67225.html

Image
Thanks. For a wedge design or thinner design where would you put these? Right on top 3/4-1” in front of rear axles ? Or underneath?
mi26
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by mi26 »

FatSebastian wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:39 pm :welcome:
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am I’m a first year cub scout dad – so first year helping my son. I’m looking to help him and coach him through but want to make sure his car is at least competitive. I’ve watched videos/read articles on this – smoothing axles, use weights, etc.
What you do, and how you do it, is going to depend a lot on what tools you have available, and the car design. You mention "wedge", which is a relatively fast and simple design, and an admirable choice for a first car. :bigups:

What we did for one of our very first (fast) cars: a simple wedge with the right amount lead (Pb) bullet (slip) fishing weights glued horizontally on the top rear to reach nearly 5.0 ounces.
Image

To be "competitive", lubrication may be the biggest speed enhancement you can make. I have seen cars perfectly weighted come in dead last because the owner forgot to lubricate.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am1. Main thing is the proper steps . What is the typical order? Do I cut first (into a wedge of some sort). Sand. Weigh everything. Apply weights. Paint. Axles/wheels?
This free ebook, though a marketing tool for certain products, does have a lot of good ideas on how to proceed.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am2. Do I just hammer the axles/nails into the designated slot? Or should I predrill it? What’s the trick to this…
Are you required to use the stock slots? If you predrill a slot, you risk having very loose axles. I'd suggest using an axle guide which I have also found available locally at Hobby Lobby. The "trick" is to not push your axles in too far, binding the wheels.
mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:52 am Or do I chisel out a small section (see a pic of someones car I saw online of something similar).
The picture links aren't showing up ("imgur down" error), but you need to chisel out for a plate if it is on the bottom to maintain sufficient clearance.
Thanks. These are the metal plates I have. I can get others but if I use these should I chisel the bottom out and put these in?
https://imgur.com/a/DzaUECw
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gpraceman
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by gpraceman »

Generally, you can double stack these under the car body (without recessing), without interference with the track guide rails. Carving out a cavity under the body will help if more weight is needed.
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FatSebastian
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by FatSebastian »

mi26 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:55 pmThese are the metal plates I have. I can get others but if I use these should I chisel the bottom out and put these in?
https://imgur.com/a/DzaUECw
So there is no size (scale) information in the picture to know how large these plates are, but I'd suppose that they might be too thick to install on the bottom without making a compartment for them to allow sufficient clearance? When inserting metal into the bottom, one also must be concerned about it interfering with installing or locating the axles. The metal looks to be steel (is that rust?), so that could make these weights more difficult to work with.

Based on the limited information you have provided, I would suggest gluing these steel-plate weight(s) on top, keeping in mind that there will be a weight limit on the final assembled car.
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by exoray »

What I do for the weight that might or might not be an option for you, is shotgun shotshell lead, you can buy smaller amounts of shotshell lead on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Fachoik-Slingsho ... B0CSWTD7HP) if you don't have another source... I hollow out an area on the bottom of the car big enough to hold the amount of shot I will need... I do this after the rough shape of the car is cut out, I tare out a cup, then put the cut block, wheels, tires on the scale and add lead to the cup until it hits 5oz, then make a cavity in the car big enough to hold that amount of shot shell, then hollow it out and repeat the process to compensate for the wood I took away... Then the wood block is handed to the Scout to finish... When they are entirely done, I put the car back on the scale upside down and level it out with shims, remove car tare out the shims then replace the car... I then take some 30-60 minute epoxy and mix it up and add about 90% of the lead I had set aside in the first step, to make an oatmeal-like epoxy lead mix, then I scoop that into the cavity on the car until it gets to 5oz... Generally, because I only used about 90% of the lead the entire amount will be used at this step, then I will mix up another batch of epoxy and pour it over the lead/epoxy oatmeal and then start dropping in lead pellets until I hit 5oz exact, then let it cure overnight... I have the advantage that I own the official scale used for the derbys I run, so I can dial it in before race day, but on race day if you need to drop or add weight the epoxy lead is easy enough to drill out and you should be very close anyway, if you need to add weight on race day crazy glue and a few pellets can bring you there as will 3-5 minute epoxy and some lead pellets using the same oatmeal technique or just dropping the pellets in a blob of epoxy on the bottom of the car...

This year I routed out the bottom of the car for my son as it was thin and needed a lot of weight, many other times I just use a forstner bit (obviously being careful not to drill too deep)

Some examples

Image
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Re: New to the Pinewood Derby - Looking for a few tips

Post by jamestford »

When we run our workshops I recommend that you drill your weight pockets first, then axle holes, then cut the body. We recommend this for a couple of reasons, it is much easier to drill weight pockets on a square body then a cut car and it is much easier to adjust the axle locations if you have some sloppy weight pockets. I have some jigs you could try out for marking axle locations and drilling out weight pockets if you have a 3D printer.
https://makerworld.com/en/@MasterBlaster3D

The weight jig works great for drilling holes for 3/8 tungsten and if you use a stop collar then it is even simpler.
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