Merry Christmas! Test Results.

[Barga Racing]

I had certainly hoped to have more results available before now but it has just not happened. So here is the address for what I have done so far. http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwfrictn.htm I will be sending Stan some revisions in the next couple days but it only concerns wording and the numbers will not change. Some of you will be surprised and others will only confirm what you already suspected. The only thing that baffles me is that grooved axles were better with Nyoil but smooth axles were better with graphite. My theory is that the surface tension of the oil is "sticky" and therefore the grooved axles have less surface to stick to. As Stan pointed out some of the numbers seem to indicate that I possibly used too much Nyoil (as you will see on several tests the last couple spins were actually the best). The use of too much oil would seem to confirm my theory further. Therefore sometime down the road I am going to repeat some of the Nyoil tests with the same application except to wipe the oil from the axle. I initially applied it as the instructions said but I found pipe cleaner lint in the bore after a few spins that were very inconsistent. That is why I stopped applying it to the bore and stopped wiping it off the axle.
We will continue to update the site as I finish more tests. I initially had 2 wheels of each hub treatment to test on every axle with both lubes. But after finding how much wear there is on the hubs I think I am only going to test one wheel of each treatment with graphite and the other wheel of the same treatment with Nyoil. The wording on the site will be changed accordingly. Happy reading!
Last but not least I want to thank Stan for his work on the website and also his insight on some of my procedures. Personally I think the man is a genius!

[TurtlePowered]

What micron rating of micromesh were you using for your comparison to the mothers polish? I would think the mothers polish would have a lower micron rating than most micromesh paper. Were you wetting the papers before using?

[Whistler]

HI,

Thanks for taking the time to do all this testing. For some reason the link to the raw data tables did not work when I tried to mouse over. Is the data available, or just the analysis posted?

Your tests do seem to show that NyOil is significantly slower than the graphite/ moly. I'd love to hear others chime in on that as I had planned to try the NyOil this year.

[Barga Racing]

What micron rating of micromesh were you using for your comparison to the mothers polish? I would think the mothers polish would have a lower micron rating than most micromesh paper. Were you wetting the papers before using?

I used the 12000, which is suposed to be less than 1 micron. Polishing compound is 3 to 5 micron. Yes I wetted it. The instructions said use water or oil, I used water. I don't really think it is all that important because after several runs with graphite the finish is pretty scratched up. Although they are very, very small scratches. I do not have a microscope or even a very good magnifying glass to compare the axles before and after.I did send a sample of micro-mesh to someone o this forum for testing. Maybe he could enlighten us if he has had a chance to use it.

[MaxV]

Your tests do seem to show that NyOil is significantly slower than the graphite/ moly. I'd love to hear others chime in on that as I had planned to try the NyOil this year.

Evidently we are interpreting this differently. In my understanding the results are showing 'spin times'. Thus, the long the spin time, the better the performance. Thus, NyOil outperforms graphite.

Bob - if I my understanding is incorrect, please clarify the test results.

[Barga Racing]

In my understanding the results are showing 'spin times'. Thus, the long the spin time, the better the performance. Thus, NyOil outperforms graphite.

Bob - if I my understanding is incorrect, please clarify the test results.

Randy, you are absolutely correct. The number represents the total time from the drop of the weight until the wheel assembly stops spinning, therefore the bigger the number the longer it spun.

[terryep]

Your testing program is very interesting. Great work!

It would be great if you could add a silicone spray lube to your trials. Apply a small amount and allow it to dry completely before testing.

You said you observed wear in your testing program. The main objective of lubrication is to prevent wear. Is there a way to quantify this wear?

I’ve found that graphite does a good job preventing wear in the plastic parts. If applied in a way that builds a graphite bearing inside the hub. This method held up well during our district race (over a hundred runs each). Silicone spray did not last as well during district but was needed in the challenge race where there were fewer runs. Perhaps silicone “peaks” during the first 20 runs? If this is true then the chosen lube will depend on the race duration!

Another thought, has anyone looked into a way to “harden” the plastic surface inside the hub?

[Whistler]

Ah, now I understand. When I looked at the test procedure that you indicated (from Stan's site) I must have misread the testing. I thought his test indicated only the "drop time" was to be checked, and honestly I didn't understand how you could get enough thread on the wheel to measure 40 seconds of drop... Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thank you all for clarifying the system.

Still if you are only measuring spin time, then I think the test system has a slight, but possibly significant flaw. The wheels will not be loaded by anything except for their own weight for the bulk of the test. This will most likely still be in proportion to the performance on a track, but a more rigorous test would include some 1.6 oz of load on the axle (for those of us who run 3 wheels down). I can envision a test apparatus that uses a motor with an rubber wheel set on its shaft that could spin the wheel up to a test RPM then shut off and both lightly load the test wheel and act as a dynamometer to measure the time to spin down. Of course since the wheels have nominal inertia, and you are really trying to minimize this in any event this measurement wouldn't be much better.

Will have to think about this further, but welcome input.

[Stan Pope]

Still if you are only measuring spin time, then I think the test system has a slight, but possibly significant flaw. The wheels will not be loaded by anything except for their own weight for the bulk of the test.

The referenced text pictures and describes a load of about 2 ounces, typical of the rear wheels of a 3-wheeler.

[TurtlePowered]

I used the 12000, which is suposed to be less than 1 micron. Polishing compound is 3 to 5 micron. Yes I wetted it. The instructions said use water or oil, I used water. I don't really think it is all that important because after several runs with graphite the finish is pretty scratched up. Although they are very, very small scratches. I do not have a microscope or even a very good magnifying glass to compare the axles before and after.I did send a sample of micro-mesh to someone o this forum for testing. Maybe he could enlighten us if he has had a chance to use it.

So the extra polishing power of the micromesh could very well be erased by using graphite? That would seem to indicate it's not really worth while to polish up axels to good.

[Stan Pope]

For some reason the link to the raw data tables did not work when I tried to mouse over. Is the data available, or just the analysis posted?

Both of my browsers, IE and AOL, show the data when I hover the mouse over the "show data" icon image. (But, only if the page has focus, i.e. is the "top page" on the desk top.)

What Browser are you using?

Is anyone aware of how "alternate text" for an image might have been disabled?

The text that is displayed on Hover is in the page text. You may save the page source to disk and look at the alt= for the subject line. It is all "plain text."

On a different note, you can also open the page in your Excel Spreadsheet, and the data in the tables is tablulated nicely for further analysis. But, the "alt" text is not displayed in Excel.

[Darin McGrew]

Is anyone aware of how "alternate text" for an image might have been disabled?

The text that is displayed on Hover is in the page text. You may save the page source to disk and look at the alt= for the subject line.

The ALT attribute should be used for alternate text, for text that is displayed when the image is not displayed.

The TITLE attribute should be used for additional information, which is displayed as a tooltip by many browsers.

But in this case, it may be more appropriate to just link to a separate page that includes the raw data.

[Whistler]

Stan,

You are quite correct on all counts (weighting and mouseover). The display I originally used to review the information was my father's Mac, so that may have added to the confusion, and I certainly didn't take a close enough look at your test rig. The wooden ring idea to provide a downforce on the axle as well as model the car's inertia is very clever. I eagerly await the results of Wooden Wonder's next tests.

[Whistler]

Regarding hardening the interior of the wheel hub:

As far as I'm aware there is no method for hardening the plastic used in the PWD kits other than greatly lowering its temperature. Of course when brought back up to "room" temp. the wheels will regain their properties. Guess we could run the derbies in a freezer, or outdoors up here...

The only hardening I can imagine working would be to insert another material within the hub (prohibited by most rules). Possibly a very stiff epoxy coating might suit, but would likely not be allowed either.


"I've got one word for you Ben - Plastic!"

[Stan Pope]

Stan,

You are quite correct on all counts (weighting and mouseover). The display I originally used to review the information was my father's Mac, so that may have added to the confusion, and I certainly didn't take a close enough look at your test rig. The wooden ring idea to provide a downforce on the axle as well as model the car's inertia is very clever. I eagerly await the results of Wooden Wonder's next tests.

Thank you.

The full list of analogs is in the reference document, http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwafm.htm

I notice that I did not explicitly cite the inverse relationship between Cf and spin time. For most of the seasoned readers, that should not be necessary.