Building a track - need advice
Building a track - need advice
I want to build a 2-3 lane track so my son can race during off season. I also want this to test tune the cars we build together. I visited a couple of sites with plans so I "think" I'm clear on plans.
My question for you guys is materials for the track surface. 1/2" birch is not available locally, only 1/4" & 3/4". I'm thinking that if I glue two 1/4" pieces together it's not going to make the bottom curve. Any suggestions on track surface material would be greatly appreciated. Also any tips on track joints would be helpful also.
Thank you in advance!
My question for you guys is materials for the track surface. 1/2" birch is not available locally, only 1/4" & 3/4". I'm thinking that if I glue two 1/4" pieces together it's not going to make the bottom curve. Any suggestions on track surface material would be greatly appreciated. Also any tips on track joints would be helpful also.
Thank you in advance!
Re: Building a track - need advice
If you really want 1/2" birch, try calling around to lumber stores. Its fairly common, hard to imagine any part of the country not having it. 1/4 birch will potato chip on you. 3/4 is too thick and wont bend easily. 1/2 inch arauco will also work. I've had great success with 1/4" vinyl coated MDF-built two tracks with it, and they don't warp.
Re: Building a track - need advice
IIRC, it's been many years, 1/2" laminated birch was a favorite of cabinet makers for doors and draw fronts. You probably won't find it at the super stores. You may have to shop at smaller local lumber yards or check online. Best guess if a local yard stocks a lot of plastic laminates (formica) they may also have have the birch and possibly others, ie maple and oak. Better yet, if you know a local cabinet maker ask them.
Piantedosi tracks use a maple faced laminate with a solid birch veneer core. The track base is constructed from 3/8" seven-ply material and the lane guides from 1/4" five-ply material. Impossible to get, but you may find something close that is suitable.
Piantedosi tracks use a maple faced laminate with a solid birch veneer core. The track base is constructed from 3/8" seven-ply material and the lane guides from 1/4" five-ply material. Impossible to get, but you may find something close that is suitable.
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Re: Building a track - need advice
cubdad wrote:and to answer your question Joe, the track plating was ordered from betacraft here:
http://www.betacrafts.com/catalog/default.php
The material underneath is plastic (vinyl?) 3"x1" house trim from Home depot sold in lenghts like 8' at Home Depot.
I just ordered two lengths...total of 27.50
Re: Building a track - need advice
I can't say for sure, but my guess would be that if you glued the two 1/4" sheets together - you will have less bend-ability than a factory made 1/2" sheet. But on the other hand if you have room for a permanently bent curved section, then glue them together while curved. It should hold that way pretty good.
Re: Building a track - need advice
Thanks guys for the help & ideas so far. 1/2" birch is not my choice, it's just what was specified on one of the sites I looked at that had plans. Like I stated, I'm open to everyones suggestions for alternatives.
Hurly64 - 1/2" birch is not available locally, Been expanding my radius & still nothing. I am very interested in the 1/4" vinyl coated MDF. Where did you get it? This sounds like something I need to check into.
doct1010 - All the wood working mags suggest using the same wood that Piantedosi uses for tracks for wood working jigs. That is if it's what I'm thinking it is, same # of plies. It's very stable. Baltic birch from Russia. The closest place to here to get it is St. Louis. I haven't seen any lengths over 60" either. This would actually be my best choice if the options were better. I appreciate the input. You gave me some future ideas.
ohiofitter - I had been looking for that link after I lost it. Saw it a couple of weeks ago & lost it. it's not going to be cost affective for me since I need to build 2-3 lanes each about 4-5 lengths long. But the plastic (vinyl?) 3"x1" house trim is something that answers my prayers (I think) for waterproof baseboard in my new shop I just built.
dna1990 - I agree
Again, thanks for the help & ideas so far...
Hurly64 - 1/2" birch is not available locally, Been expanding my radius & still nothing. I am very interested in the 1/4" vinyl coated MDF. Where did you get it? This sounds like something I need to check into.
doct1010 - All the wood working mags suggest using the same wood that Piantedosi uses for tracks for wood working jigs. That is if it's what I'm thinking it is, same # of plies. It's very stable. Baltic birch from Russia. The closest place to here to get it is St. Louis. I haven't seen any lengths over 60" either. This would actually be my best choice if the options were better. I appreciate the input. You gave me some future ideas.
ohiofitter - I had been looking for that link after I lost it. Saw it a couple of weeks ago & lost it. it's not going to be cost affective for me since I need to build 2-3 lanes each about 4-5 lengths long. But the plastic (vinyl?) 3"x1" house trim is something that answers my prayers (I think) for waterproof baseboard in my new shop I just built.
dna1990 - I agree
Again, thanks for the help & ideas so far...
Re: Building a track - need advice
Iceman,
Yes it is Baltic birch in the ply config I mentioned. According to Piantedosi only ONE mill in the country makes it. I assume for them, or it might just be marketing propaganda. I mention the specs so you could get close if that is your intention.
I question the structural integrity of MDF or any composite wood product for track application, especially the transition. It will bend but not withstand weight or pressure. The primary reason you want multi ply laminate. It will also absorb moisture like a sponge if not thoroughly sealed. It is heavy and fragile. But, many have used it so this is only my opinion.
I have heard very good test tracks being built with ordinary 3/8" 3 ply fir covered in masonite or plastic laminate for track surface and guides made of solid maple or oak. I actually ran a car on a formica track a pack member built. Very fast and smooth. Much less rolling resistance than wood and wheels are prone to sliding. He subsequently sanded entire running surface with 400 grit to remove "shine" of laminate and reports it helped quite a bit with slide. Many options are available to you if you decide to cover surface which renders base material less critical.
If your intention is building a top shelf wood track that will last a lifetime, get the multi ply Baltic birch if you can find it. If you are willing to settle for a very good or good enough test track, the other options are more than viable. All IMO.
ps edit: "marketing propaganda" a redundant phrase?
Yes it is Baltic birch in the ply config I mentioned. According to Piantedosi only ONE mill in the country makes it. I assume for them, or it might just be marketing propaganda. I mention the specs so you could get close if that is your intention.
I question the structural integrity of MDF or any composite wood product for track application, especially the transition. It will bend but not withstand weight or pressure. The primary reason you want multi ply laminate. It will also absorb moisture like a sponge if not thoroughly sealed. It is heavy and fragile. But, many have used it so this is only my opinion.
I have heard very good test tracks being built with ordinary 3/8" 3 ply fir covered in masonite or plastic laminate for track surface and guides made of solid maple or oak. I actually ran a car on a formica track a pack member built. Very fast and smooth. Much less rolling resistance than wood and wheels are prone to sliding. He subsequently sanded entire running surface with 400 grit to remove "shine" of laminate and reports it helped quite a bit with slide. Many options are available to you if you decide to cover surface which renders base material less critical.
If your intention is building a top shelf wood track that will last a lifetime, get the multi ply Baltic birch if you can find it. If you are willing to settle for a very good or good enough test track, the other options are more than viable. All IMO.
ps edit: "marketing propaganda" a redundant phrase?
Re: Building a track - need advice
Doct1010 I agree with you 100%. The only other wood I could see being this good if not better would be Finnish Birch. (more plies) It may be the time constraints getting to me. District is Feb 23. Plus it's a 4 hour drive to St. Louis from here or I would definitely go that route. The one thing I don't like about either Baltic or Finnish Birch is that 60" is the longest length I've found so far. (more joints)
LOL on marketing propaganda
LOL on marketing propaganda
Re: Building a track - need advice
Timber Products Company
P.O. Box 381767
Germantown, TN, 38183-1767
Phone: (901) 755-1391
Fax: (901) 757-9482
Toll Free: (800) 477-6195
Website: www.timberproducts.com
P.O. Box 381767
Germantown, TN, 38183-1767
Phone: (901) 755-1391
Fax: (901) 757-9482
Toll Free: (800) 477-6195
Website: www.timberproducts.com
Re: Building a track - need advice
Thanks gman, I'll give them a call in the morning.
Re: Building a track - need advice
Nice wood, nice selection of finish ply. However, the multi ply is soft wood or MDF core, nowhere near the quality of the Piantedosi solid hardwood core and maple finish ply. Would work well if price is right and comes in 10' lengths!Gman4dw wrote:Timber Products Company
P.O. Box 381767
Germantown, TN, 38183-1767
Phone: (901) 755-1391
Fax: (901) 757-9482
Toll Free: (800) 477-6195
Website: www.timberproducts.com
Re: Building a track - need advice
Home Depot should have the 1/4 MDF. In my neck of the woods, its only about $15/sheet. I used mine for 3 years, outside, under a covered porch in foggy weather. It never expanded or swelled due to moisture, and the radius never cracked on me. Its actually alot floppier than plywood and bends real easily. Same with 1/2" MDF.
Alot of people confuse MDF with particleboard, which does expand due to moisture and breaks easily when bent. MDF is a superior product than plywood in my mind, especially if you are bending it. It machines as smooth as glass, and you can paint the edges. There are many reasons that commercial casework guys use the stuff over plywood. Museums even use it for their displays, but you'd never know it cause its usually painted or veneered. In fact, your desk at work is probably made of it, and if the front of your reception desk is curved, that's probably MDF, as well.
IMHO, if MDF were available to Don Murphy 50 years ago, he would have used it.
Alot of people confuse MDF with particleboard, which does expand due to moisture and breaks easily when bent. MDF is a superior product than plywood in my mind, especially if you are bending it. It machines as smooth as glass, and you can paint the edges. There are many reasons that commercial casework guys use the stuff over plywood. Museums even use it for their displays, but you'd never know it cause its usually painted or veneered. In fact, your desk at work is probably made of it, and if the front of your reception desk is curved, that's probably MDF, as well.
IMHO, if MDF were available to Don Murphy 50 years ago, he would have used it.
Re: Building a track - need advice
With all due respect, imo unless covered with a plastic laminate and sealed completely it is an inferior product for track construction. True, it has gained wide spread acceptance in furniture and casework, but for my money I'm always opting for solid hardwood or veneer over a softwood.Hurly64 wrote: ...It never expanded or swelled due to moisture, and the radius never cracked on me. Its actually alot floppier than plywood and bends real easily. Same with 1/2" MDF.
Alot of people confuse MDF with particleboard, which does expand due to moisture and breaks easily when bent. MDF is a superior product than plywood in my mind, especially if you are bending it. It machines as smooth as glass, and you can paint the edges. There are many reasons that commercial casework guys use the stuff over plywood. Museums even use it for their displays, but you'd never know it cause its usually painted or veneered. In fact, your desk at work is probably made of it, and if the front of your reception desk is curved, that's probably MDF, as well.
IMHO, if MDF were available to Don Murphy 50 years ago, he would have used it.
No confusion here, MDF is a type of fibreboard made from wood or other lignocellulosic materials, refined into fibres and reconstituted with a resin binder (glue) carried out at elevated temperatures. The raw wood material can be in almost any form or specie and in almost any mixture such as low grade wood specie, branches, small diameter trees, hardwood, softwood, mill waste and forestry waste chips. MDF typically has a density of 600-800 kg/m³, in contrast to particle board (160-450 kg/m³) and to high-density fiberboard (600-1450 kg/m³). Similar manufacturing processes are used in making all types of fiberboard. MDF has been controversial in regard to its use of formaldehyde resins and the associated health risks.
Try this, place a 12" x 8' piece of 1/2" or 3/4" or even 5/8" MDF between two milk crates and stand on it. Be careful! Would you expect the same result with even the cheapest 3/8" plywood, it will bend but not break like a toothpick. Why I questioned it's structural integrity above. Great for flat surfaces such as a desk or table top or even some cabinets, not designed to withstand weight or pressure in a radius curve.Hurly64 wrote: It never expanded or swelled due to moisture, and the radius never cracked on me. Its actually alot floppier than plywood and bends real easily. Same with 1/2" MDF.
Maybe so. Haven't seen to many 50 year old MDF tracks, however I have seen several Piantedosi with quite a bit of age on them still going strong and looking real good. It will not warp, twist, or delaminate. Guaranteed - forever!Hurly64 wrote: IMHO, if MDF were available to Don Murphy 50 years ago, he would have used it.
Re: Building a track - need advice
Any material will break if you put enough stress on it. The important thing is that a chosen material be able to withstand the loads put on it for its intended use, with a reasonable safety factor. The last time I checked, the BSA rules limited derby cars to 5 oz. So you would have to put about 450 cars on an MDF track before it breaks. And a 1/4" sheet of MDF can be repeatedly bent into a curve tighter than a Best track without suffering any permanent deformation. I've done it several times."Try this, place a 12" x 8' piece of 1/2" or 3/4" or even 5/8" MDF between two milk crates and stand on it. Be careful! Would you expect the same result with even the cheapest 3/8" plywood, it will bend but not break like a toothpick. Why I questioned it's structural integrity above. Great for flat surfaces such as a desk or table top or even some cabinets, not designed to withstand weight or pressure in a radius curve".
That's provided you handle it and store it properly. Even the best grade of plywood, or MDF for that matter, will warp if you store it on the side of your house or in a leaky shed.I have seen several Piantedosi with quite a bit of age on them still going strong and looking real good. It will not warp, twist, or delaminate. Guaranteed - forever!
Its a well known fact in woodworking circles that MDF is also more dimensionally stable than plywood, esp if you are comparing it to the 1/2" plywood on the market these days. I've never had to sort through a stack of MDF plywood at the lumberyard to find a flat sheet. The only reason I wouldn't use 1/2" MDF for a track is weight. I'd still go for the vinyl-coated 1/4" MDF for a track surface any day over plywood. Like I said before on this forum, I've built 2 of them like that. I stand behind them 100%, and I'd build one again the same way.
Re: Building a track - need advice
I called them today & my suspicion was right. They only sell to major accounts with the majority being manufacturing. The few retailers are not local enough to be cost affective.Gman4dw wrote:Timber Products Company
P.O. Box 381767
Germantown, TN, 38183-1767
Phone: (901) 755-1391
Fax: (901) 757-9482
Toll Free: (800) 477-6195
Website: www.timberproducts.com
Last edited by iceman61 on Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.