New BSA Wheel and Axle??

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
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Pinewood Daddy
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New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Pinewood Daddy » Fri May 22, 2009 5:05 am

I just got an email from Pinewood Extreme (misspelling and poor grammar included):
BSA NATIONAL SUPPLY RELEASES ANOTHER VERSION OF THE "Offical Pinewood Derby" Wheel.

The new wheel is changes everything. New Molds, New Internal Design, Lighter at 2.6grams, Smaller Diameter, Reduced and Tapered Hub.

There is a new Axle nail too!

Stay Tuned to Pinewood Extreme for more information.



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sporty
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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by sporty » Fri May 22, 2009 6:50 am

It's very possible.

Over a year ago when I got the info on the colored wheels. you will recall I also had heard that a new wheel design was going to come out also.

But then I did not hear anything more about it and the colored wheels got released even sooner.

so we will have to wait and see what comes about.

Sporty



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by gpraceman » Fri May 22, 2009 1:58 pm

That is quite interesting news. The photo below does seem to give a bit of a preview of that new wheel. The axle shaft looks much skinnier. The hub does seem to be coned. It doesn't seem that the tread thickness has been reduced any.

Old - Image
New - Image

It will be interesting to see more photos and determine all of the differences.

Having a lighter wheel and coned hubs is a big plus to me. :bigups: I think it will help novice builders be a bit more competitive.

I wish they had a photo of the new axles. I'm really hoping they are like the Awana axles (machined pins) and are no longer nails. :pray: The Awana axles require far less work.
Dad of 3 wrote:I just got an email from Pinewood Extreme stating BSA is releasing a new wheel. New molds, new design, lighter reduced and tapered hub. What a nightmare on the rules now. Does anybody have more info? Now my stock of extra wheels should just be discarded. It also says new axles too.
This may throw a wrench in many pack, district and council rules. Hard to know just yet the full impact, since we have very little detail as of yet.


Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

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Pinewood Daddy
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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Pinewood Daddy » Fri May 22, 2009 4:00 pm

gpraceman wrote:This may throw a wrench in many pack, district and council rules. Hard to know just yet the full impact, since we have very little detail as of yet.
If they're official BSA they should be legal. I assume they'll be the new standard in the box.

I can't wait to throw out the 100+ wheels I have and buy more in our last year of Cub Scouts!!!



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by gpraceman » Fri May 22, 2009 4:04 pm

Pinewood Daddy wrote:If they're official BSA they should be legal. I assume they'll be the new standard in the box.
There's no question about that (at least to me). But there are rules out there that prohibit hub coning, have a limit on wheel weight (hey Teeeman), or use photos/drawings of "bad" wheels that these new wheels may resemble. Those rules will need to be revised. This assumes that the race coordinators become aware of the change. Some may not find out until check-in time.

Depending on the new axles, there may need to be some rule changes for them as well.
Pinewood Daddy wrote:I can't wait to throw out the 100+ wheels I have and buy more in our last year of Cub Scouts!!!
BSA thanks you for your support of scouting. ;) :sigh:


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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by psycaz » Fri May 22, 2009 6:28 pm

Folks will have to rewrite their rules. Can't DQ boys for using what is in the box.

If they come out for next year, rules committees will need to be prepared.



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Stan Pope » Fri May 22, 2009 10:54 pm

If anyone gets wind of when the new design will hit the scout shops, "sing out!" Meanwhile, I've posted the info to the local rules group to start thinking about what, if anything, we need to do.

I think that we can allow "old stock" to be used for a year or two because it probably affords them no advantage ... if info on weight and bore dia are correct. If the new wheels are significantly lighter, then we could consider relaxing the current rule on reducing wheel mass (but probably won't do that).
Last edited by Stan Pope on Sat May 23, 2009 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Pinewood Daddy » Sat May 23, 2009 7:00 am

Our rules state: "Only the axles, wheels, and wood provided in the kit are permitted. Wheels may be lightly sanded on the flat area only to remove burrs and surface imperfections, but cannot be altered in any other way inside or outside. The simulated tire tread (small ridges on outer edge) must remain." If the wheels come in the kit, they're official.



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by gpraceman » Sat May 23, 2009 8:57 am

There is a new Axle nail too!
I guess I missed the word "nail" in their announcement. So, maybe these will still be nails after all. That would be disappointing. Maybe they are putting the nails through an additional process to straighten them and remove the burrs and raised ridges. I wish we had more info. Impatiently waiting :waiting:


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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Randy and Son » Sat May 23, 2009 10:33 am

gpraceman wrote:
There is a new Axle nail too!
I guess I missed the word "nail" in their announcement. So, maybe these will still be nails after all. That would be disappointing. Maybe they are putting the nails through an additional process to straighten them and remove the burrs and raised ridges. I wish we had more info. Impatiently waiting :waiting:
Or maybe at a minimum they will just move the ridges farther down the nail like PineCar axles. At least the ridges are out of the way and don't need to be dressed then.

Randy



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by quadad » Sat May 23, 2009 11:26 am

Pinewood Daddy wrote:The new wheel is changes everything. New Molds, New Internal Design, Lighter at 2.6grams, Smaller Diameter, Reduced and Tapered Hub.
I have two reactions to this:
1) Like Pinewood Daddy, I may have a pile of "practice wheels only" since the new ones would be a full gram lighter. Bought these at end of current season on sale so that we could start early for next season; :pullhair:

2) The reduced diameter part - that could possibly mess up tools we have invested in also. For example, the ProBody jig places axle holes at the maximum height such that the bottom of the car just clears a 3/8" check strip with a finished wheel. :idk:

I would be disappointed on both accounts. I would have MUCH rather that they just increased the quality of the present dimensioned wheels. Its pretty well established here that only about 1 out of 8 are reasonably round and roll decent.



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by gpraceman » Sat May 23, 2009 12:56 pm

quadad wrote:2) The reduced diameter part - that could possibly mess up tools we have invested in also. For example, the ProBody jig places axle holes at the maximum height such that the bottom of the car just clears a 3/8" check strip with a finished wheel. :idk:
I think what they meant was that the outer hub diameter has been reduced, not the wheel diameter. I would be rather surprised if they reduced the wheel diameter (unless they lathed the wheels to make them more round, which I seriously doubt).


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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Rod Turnbull » Sun May 24, 2009 9:24 pm

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the change to hit Canada... right now I think we get the BSA castoffs in our kits as the 'BSA' on the inside of all the wheels is half covered and reads 'B##' (a blank plastic blob where the #s are)... We may be in the market to buy up some leftover wheels... the new ones might not make it here for years to come.



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by priority » Sun May 24, 2009 9:55 pm

Stan Pope wrote:If anyone gets wind of when the new design will hit the scout shops, "sing out!" Meanwhile, I've posted the info to the local rules group to start thinking about what, if anything, we need to do.

I think that we can allow "old stock" to be used for a year or two because it probably affords them no advantage ... if info on weight and bore dia are correct. If the new wheels are significantly lighter, then we could consider relaxing the current rule on reducing wheel mass (but probably won't do that).
I stopped by the local Scout Shop yesterday to pick up a few things for summer camp and a new book for my Cub. Interestingly enough, neither employee (both have been working there for years) had heard of the rumored PWD changes. However, I did learn there is a nationwide shortage of spiral bound Webelos Handbooks!



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Re: New BSA Wheel and Axle??

Post by Stan Pope » Sun May 24, 2009 10:02 pm

Rod Turnbull wrote:It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the change to hit Canada... right now I think we get the BSA castoffs in our kits as the 'BSA' on the inside of all the wheels is half covered and reads 'B##' (a blank plastic blob where the #s are)... We may be in the market to buy up some leftover wheels... the new ones might not make it here for years to come.
Interesting. Do you think that someone modifies finished wheels? Or might your wheels be produced using modified BSA molds? (Modified by milling a dimple where the S and A would be.)

Are there counterbalancing blobs diametrically opposite? Or is that additional balancing up to the builder?


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