Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

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MJThurston
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Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:30 am

I got a test track and it has rails on it. The track that we will be running on doesn't have these rails.

Is there a way to set your car up for this or am I out of luck?
Last edited by MJThurston on Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Re: Testing your car on a rail track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Speedster » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:02 pm

Up in the top right corner it says "Search". I would keep searching, using different worded questions, to see what different racers have to say. Those tracks are not very popular but if you find one expert you'll be way ahead of the game.
Best Wishes.



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Re: Testing your car on a rail track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:13 pm

Yep. Did a search for test run with 0 hits.

Then did a search for test and got my own post.

Which kind of tracks are not very popular? Rails or lane?



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Re: Testing your car on a rail track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:48 pm

By rails, do you mean the sidewalls?

Most conventional Pinewood Derby tracks use a center guide strip. Is this what your actual race will use?



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Re: Testing your car on a rail track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:14 pm

My test run track has center guide strips. I call it rails. The track my son will race on is a wooden track that has lanes.

Test track = inside of wheel touches guide.
Race track = outside of wheel touches track.



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Re: Testing your car on a rail track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:10 pm

MJThurston wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:14 pm
My test run track has center guide strips. I call it rails. The track my son will race on is a wooden track that has lanes.

Test track = inside of wheel touches guide.
Race track = outside of wheel touches track.
Ahhhh...I really dislike the "lanes" style of track.

I have heard some ideas for how to tune a car to race on a track with sidewalls, but I have never actually built a car for that purpose.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:18 pm

Well i'm rail riding so the concept is the same but in opposite ways.

So for the center guide I want the non moving wheels inside to touch the guide. So if my left front wheel is the non moving wheel I want the car to move to the right to catch the guide.

But for a lane track I want the car to move to the left so the non moving wheels outside touches the left lane wall.

So I'm not sure how I can use my track to get the car set up correctly.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Speedster » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:50 pm

MJ, I'm not following your last post. A raised wheel should never touch anything. Only the Dfw should ever touch the guide strip. Depending on what your rules allow, it might be wise to build a Hershey bar car, set the balance point 1/2" in front of the rear axle slot, and do a Super job on axles and most definitely the wheel bores. You might want to buy a set of Preferred number wheels that are usually .003 or less out of round. Make sure the back wheels are not steering the car and bend the Dfw axle to 1 1/2 degrees so you can make sure the car is running straight. A car set up to run straight can be very, very fast if all the other things are done perfectly. Watch the cars closely and the one that wins you'll probably learn a lot.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:58 pm

I have one front wheel bent to 1.5 degrees and both back axles at 2.5 degrees. The other front wheel is raised. The directions for rail riding was 1 inch of movement from center in 8 feet of drop.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm

Take this with a grain of salt, as I've never built a side-guided car. However, here's what I'd attempt to do if my kids' race was on side-guided track:

- Set the car up to "rail-ride" on the sidewall. To do this, I'd do the following things:
-- Raise one wheel in front
-- On the non-raised front wheel, I'd put negative camber on that wheel (maybe 4-5 degrees) and toe-out, so that it would steer the car to the direction of whatever side that wheel was on.
-- On the rears, I'd probably put 1.5 degrees (or so) of negative camber on these wheels, but on the wheel behind the dominant front wheel, I would recess that wheel 1/8" or so (or maybe more) to make sure it could not hit the sidewall when the DFW ran up against it.

In order to test all this, I'd build a 4-6 foot tuning board with a pair of 2x4's attached to the middle to make a "channel" that the car would run down, much as it would with a side-walled track. Then I'd set the board at a shallow angle and watch the behavior of the car as I rolled it down. I'd be looking for:
-- The car to drift to the DFW side and the wheel meet the sidewall
-- The rears to always stay off of the wall
-- The rears to migrate out to the axle heads.

Mind you, this is all theoretical, so if anybody with experience running on these awful tracks wants to chip in, by all means. :)



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Thank you for the response.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by whodathunkit » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:48 pm

Hi and :welcome: MJThurston.

So your racing on a rail less track and it's wood! ( and not the super timer track .)

Might look at what your rules say about wheel mods .. ( if the side wall lettering can be shaved off it would help )
If your not planing on using some neg camber on the lifted wheel to run down the divider .

Never raced on this type of track .. so best of luck to you !


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by Speedster » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:50 am

VK, I like the sound of your build.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:00 am

whodathunkit wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:48 pm
Hi and :welcome: MJThurston.

So your racing on a rail less track and it's wood! ( and not the super timer track .)

Might look at what your rules say about wheel mods .. ( if the side wall lettering can be shaved off it would help )
If your not planing on using some neg camber on the lifted wheel to run down the divider .

Never raced on this type of track .. so best of luck to you !

Thank you for the welcome and response.

Can't shave the wheel sides or machine them.



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Re: Testing your car on a guided track,when racing on a lane track

Post by MJThurston » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:31 am

Vitamin K wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm
Take this with a grain of salt, as I've never built a side-guided car. However, here's what I'd attempt to do if my kids' race was on side-guided track:

- Set the car up to "rail-ride" on the sidewall. To do this, I'd do the following things:
-- Raise one wheel in front
-- On the non-raised front wheel, I'd put negative camber on that wheel (maybe 4-5 degrees) and toe-out, so that it would steer the car to the direction of whatever side that wheel was on.
-- On the rears, I'd probably put 1.5 degrees (or so) of negative camber on these wheels, but on the wheel behind the dominant front wheel, I would recess that wheel 1/8" or so (or maybe more) to make sure it could not hit the sidewall when the DFW ran up against it.

In order to test all this, I'd build a 4-6 foot tuning board with a pair of 2x4's attached to the middle to make a "channel" that the car would run down, much as it would with a side-walled track. Then I'd set the board at a shallow angle and watch the behavior of the car as I rolled it down. I'd be looking for:
-- The car to drift to the DFW side and the wheel meet the sidewall
-- The rears to always stay off of the wall
-- The rears to migrate out to the axle heads.

Mind you, this is all theoretical, so if anybody with experience running on these awful tracks wants to chip in, by all means. :)
Thank you for the advice.

You have way more experience than I do on this. I'm going to say some things about what I have read. By no means take this as challenging your experience. I'll tell you what I've read and you can tell me if that is right or wrong. Again, please don't take this as me saying your wrong. I know how things can be read online.

One front wheel up. One front wheel at 1.5 negative. Both back wheels 2.5 positive. Car is to steer into the wall so the non moving wheel touching the side. This allows all the moving wheels to continue spinning.

You suggest have the front driving wheel touch the side and allow for the back wheels to not touch the side also.

I have two cars. One for my boyscout and one for his younger brother. I could set his younger brothers up as you suggest and test them both to see what happens.


Thank you.



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