Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
Speedster
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Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:51 am

We have a Girl Scout who has joined our Cub Scout Pack. She happens to be the daughter of our Pack leader and the guy who runs our Pack and District Pinewood Derby. She and her dad also build very fast cars. Our Pack leader's wife is closely connected to a Girl Scout troop.
OK. She wears a Cub Scout uniform when at Cub Scout activities and a Girl Scout Uniform when at Girl Scout activities. Girl Scouts are required to be signed up and active in a Girl Scout troop along with being signed up with a Cub Scout Pack.

The Pinewood Derby:
Here's what everyone is struggling with at the present time. Should the Girl Scout be allowed to race in the appropriate Cub Scout race wearing the Cub Scout uniform and if she wins then move on to the Cub Scout District race? Should the Girl Scout then be able to race in the appropriate Girl Scout race wearing the Girl Scout uniform and then race in the next higher level
girl Scout race? This Girl Scout won her grade group last year for what I will call her Pack Race and then went on to win the next level race in both her grade group and then 1st in the "Top Eliminator" race.

Our Pack will race Pack 217's cub scouts on January 9, 2019 and then race the Girl Scout troop on January 10, 2019. I think it would be very exciting to see a young lady at the Cub Scout District race racing against what will probably be an All Male group. Everyone would remember that race forever.

Things must be happening across the U.S. involving the Cub Scouts/Girl Scouts Pinewood Derbies. I would enjoy hearing your stories and I suspect others would also.
Best Wishes for your upcoming races.



Loud2ns
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Loud2ns » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:10 am

I would say they need to pick one group to race with and stick with that.

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Speedster
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:52 am

Loud2ns, Thanks for your thoughts.
I think it's going to be difficult to tell a scout who wears the uniform and was invited to belong to that group that only she cannot participate in one of the activities. I sense a lawsuit against the Boy Scouts of America coming if that happens. It seems to me it would be a lot easier to simply let her race. I suspect a lot more things will come up in the future that will be a lot more challenging to solve then the Pinewood Derby.
We'll see what happens.



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by bracketracer » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:01 pm

I would say to let her race in whatever groups she is a member. If the cub scouts race the girl scouts it sounds like she has the chance to race herself then? She'd need to build a new car though, right? Our rules require that a car can't have run in competition before, do you have a similar rule?



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by MaxV » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:43 pm

I would not prohibit her racing, as long as separate car is built for each event.



Speedster
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:50 pm

The Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts have different rules although they are very similar. Our Pack happens to race Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts but they each race on different days. The Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts do not race each other.

What we have is a Girl Scout belongs to both a Girl Scout troop required by the Girl Scouts but also belongs to a Cub Scout Pack because The Boy Scouts of America have invited the Girl Scouts to join them. Both the Cub Scout rules and Girl Scout rules state "The car must be made this year". The car will be made this year and it will qualify per the rules to race in both The Cub Scout race and then The Girl Scout race. The Girl Scouts are using the Boy Scout kit for their races so the parts will be exactly the same. There will be no Cub Scout rules or Girl Scout rules broken if the same car competes in each of the races.

As a popular Gentleman in America often says, "We'll see what happens".



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whodathunkit
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by whodathunkit » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:26 pm

Speedster wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:50 pm
Both the Cub Scout rules and Girl Scout rules state "The car must be made this year". The car will be made this year and it will qualify per the rules to race in both The Cub Scout race and then The Girl Scout race. The Girl Scouts are using the Boy Scout kit for their races so the parts will be exactly the same. There will be no Cub Scout rules or Girl Scout rules broken if the same car competes in each of the races.

As a popular Gentleman in America often says, "We'll see what happens".
Speedster.. I don't get what your saying hear!
Is she given a kit to build and race in that years Cub Scout race.. and then also given a kit to build and race in that years Girl Scout race as well ?
I know what your saying if the kit type provided from both groups are the same kit types and being hard to enforce.

So i guess the real question comes down to if she will use the kit provided from each group.
I think she will as a test .. to must use the kit provided for each race. ;)


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Speedster
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:50 am

Whoda, you are correct. She will receive a BSA kit from each group. The kit is not the problem. The problem is, "Will she be allowed to race in the Cub Scout race on January 9th and then the Girl Scout race on January 10th"? If she wins in the Cub Scout race will she then be allowed to race the Cub Scout District race? As I mentioned earlier, this young lady and her father build very fast cars and she probably will win the Cub Scout District race. Her older brother won the Cub Scout District race last year and her car is faster than his. She won everything last year, including Top Eliminator, at the last race the Girl Scouts offered. The only Girl Scout that came close to her car was my neighbor who came in 2nd in the Top Eliminator race.

This whole situation is very exciting. I would Love to see her race in the Cub Scout races. The Executives of the Commodore Perry District have yet to decide whether they will allow her to race with the Cub Scouts. The Executives have a bit of a problem because this Girl Scout happens to be the daughter of the guy who supplies the track at the District race and also races Pack 217 Cub Scouts and then the next day races the Girl Scout troop. If the Executives decide the Girl Scout cannot race against the Cub Scouts --- Well, I might need to start anotherTopic.



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Vitamin K
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Vitamin K » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:06 am

If she has actual membership in both organizations (BSA and GSA) she should be allowed to participate in any races provided she builds separate cars for each. I don't see what the disconnect is.



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:07 am

Vitamin K, I agree with you 100% (Almost)

Since these are two very separate races where one has nothing to do with the other, what would be any rule to even suggest two separate cars be built?
The rules have already been sent to the Packs and Troops for the 2019 races. If any rules are changed they will need to appear for races in 2020. As more girls join Cub Scouts what you are suggesting might appear in future rules. Nothing will actually change as far as the racing goes. She builds the exact same car every year. Granted, one car will always be a bit faster then the other but they will be very close. My personal track will guarantee they each reach a certain speed.
More news as it happens. My Goodness I'm having Fun.



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Vitamin K
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Vitamin K » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:26 pm

Speedster wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:07 am
Vitamin K, I agree with you 100% (Almost)

Since these are two very separate races where one has nothing to do with the other, what would be any rule to even suggest two separate cars be built?
This isn't always a stated rule, but it's always seemed to me that there's an unstated understanding that for Scout derbies, you build a car for a specific race, unless it's a tiered system like Districts, Councils or the like.

Of course, I'm also addicted to building, so maybe I have a different perspective than a parent who is struggling just to get one car made with their kid.



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:30 pm

VK, this is all new ground. We'll just take it one day at a time.



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Darin McGrew » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:50 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:26 pm
Speedster wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:07 am
Since these are two very separate races where one has nothing to do with the other, what would be any rule to even suggest two separate cars be built?
This isn't always a stated rule, but it's always seemed to me that there's an unstated understanding that for Scout derbies, you build a car for a specific race, unless it's a tiered system like Districts, Councils or the like.
Building two cars would be the cleanest approach. Then there would be no question. The two events are separate, and a separate car was built for each event.

And if either of the events specifies that the car must be built for that event, then the letter of the law is clear too. But if both of the events specify that the car must be built this year, or don't specify anything, then the letter of the law gets murky.

At our derbies, we've had kids show up with cars that were clearly built for another event (e.g., BSA wheels and block, rather than CSB wheels and block). We require them to use our wheels and axles (handing them a new set if necessary), but we let them register and race. But we've only had our local derby, with no regional derby to qualify for.



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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Speedster » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:22 pm

Darin, what does CSB stand for?



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Vitamin K
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Re: Cub scouts/Girl Scouts

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:31 pm

Speedster wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:22 pm
Darin, what does CSB stand for?
Christian Service Brigade?



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