Although I have attended and raced in many a derby over the decades, I have never actually paid much attention to how long it takes vs the number of cars.
That said I will be coordinating and running my first derby later this year for our local Girl Scouts service unit, it's hard to estimate the turnout post Covid with membership numbers slashed, but I'm expecting anywhere from 100-150 participants off the top of my head.
So my question is for those that have run several derbies. Assuming a moderate to leisurely pace (we will all be new at this so, I expect some hiccups) can anyone give me an estimate of how long I'm looking at for the day? I will be using a 4 lane track with DerbyNet software, each car will run 4 times (once in each lane) and the cars will be broken down into 4 age groups. I'm mostly trying to estimate a time schedule for the heats of the 4 age levels as I expect many will not be sticking around the entire day but just showing up for their heat. I expect to take breaks between the heats to adjust to whatever time schedule I create, but I don't want to find myself with 1 hour long breaks between heats if possible because I grossly overestimated how long it would take to run those 30 cars in that heat, if that makes sense.
Race Duration?
Race Duration?
Last edited by exoray on Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gpraceman
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Re: Race Duration?
I'd target an average of 60 seconds turnaround time per heat. An efficient race crew can get that down to 45 seconds or less.
Here's some tips and tricks for speeding up a race. Keep in mind that this is partially geared towards GrandPrix Race Manager software, so some tips may not apply to other software.
What takes you far longer than you expect is checking in all of those cars. If you can, check them in prior to race day. We would do check-in the night before the race. This included test running the cars down the track (individually and not timed) to identify the cars that needed more work in order to cross the finish line. Race day was easier to manage without dealing with check-in.
You still have to factor in time for your check-in, opening ceremony and the awards ceremony. No one will complain if the race finishes up ahead of schedule. But there will be a lot of grumbling if the race drags on long.
Here's some tips and tricks for speeding up a race. Keep in mind that this is partially geared towards GrandPrix Race Manager software, so some tips may not apply to other software.
What takes you far longer than you expect is checking in all of those cars. If you can, check them in prior to race day. We would do check-in the night before the race. This included test running the cars down the track (individually and not timed) to identify the cars that needed more work in order to cross the finish line. Race day was easier to manage without dealing with check-in.
You still have to factor in time for your check-in, opening ceremony and the awards ceremony. No one will complain if the race finishes up ahead of schedule. But there will be a lot of grumbling if the race drags on long.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Race Duration?
Randy already covered the main suggestions I have: do the registration and inspection (weight, dimensions, etc.) before race day, and plan for a minute per race (plus intro, awards, etc.).
With the registration and inspection done a day or three before race day, you can also have the design judges do their job in a more leisurely manner. When we used to do the registration and inspection on race day, we would often have a potluck between checking in the cars and racing, but that meant the design judges were doing their job during the potluck. Since we like to recruit independent judges who aren't related to any of the kids, that meant our guest judges missed the potluck, which wasn't very hospitable.
The registration and inspection will take longer than you expect. The last 5 minutes of the registration and inspection will take an hour or more.
With 100-150 cars and each car racing once in each lane, you have 100-150 minutes of racing, plus time for intro, awards, etc. That's a long time for most people to watch the races, so I'd recommend dividing up by age group.
Our crew got down to around 30 seconds per race, as long as there were no cars scheduled for consecutive races. That isn't always possible with small groups of cars though. You can combine two or more small groups into one, or if you don't want them to compete against each other, you can alternate between groups (race 1 of group A, race 1 of group B, race 2 of group A, and so on). That way, the groups race against other members of the same group, but the small groups don't force cars to be scheduled for consecutive races.
But we always planned for a minute per race, because Murphy was an optimist. And make sure your MC has material to keep everyone entertained for occasional unscheduled breaks. Maybe the MC will just use it between the main heats and any runoffs, or while the crew is tabulating the results. But maybe something will go wrong and cause a delay while you're fixing it.
With the registration and inspection done a day or three before race day, you can also have the design judges do their job in a more leisurely manner. When we used to do the registration and inspection on race day, we would often have a potluck between checking in the cars and racing, but that meant the design judges were doing their job during the potluck. Since we like to recruit independent judges who aren't related to any of the kids, that meant our guest judges missed the potluck, which wasn't very hospitable.
The registration and inspection will take longer than you expect. The last 5 minutes of the registration and inspection will take an hour or more.
With 100-150 cars and each car racing once in each lane, you have 100-150 minutes of racing, plus time for intro, awards, etc. That's a long time for most people to watch the races, so I'd recommend dividing up by age group.
Our crew got down to around 30 seconds per race, as long as there were no cars scheduled for consecutive races. That isn't always possible with small groups of cars though. You can combine two or more small groups into one, or if you don't want them to compete against each other, you can alternate between groups (race 1 of group A, race 1 of group B, race 2 of group A, and so on). That way, the groups race against other members of the same group, but the small groups don't force cars to be scheduled for consecutive races.
But we always planned for a minute per race, because Murphy was an optimist. And make sure your MC has material to keep everyone entertained for occasional unscheduled breaks. Maybe the MC will just use it between the main heats and any runoffs, or while the crew is tabulating the results. But maybe something will go wrong and cause a delay while you're fixing it.
Re: Race Duration?
Thanks for the input, registration and track setup will be done the night before, so that will be taken out of the race day equation... The one minute number per car really helps out, that is what I was missing...
Unlike a typical BSA Pack race most won't be staying the entire day as this is at the Girl Scouts service unit level, and unlike Cub Scouts girl scout packs are generally a single level so likely they will show up for their heat and leave, heats will be by Girl Scouts rank and will be scheduled ahead of time, thus the need for time estimates as to when people should show up for their heat as I expect people to leave after their heat unless they have a sibling in a later race.. Mostly trying to eliminate long breaks between heats due to over scheduling the time slot, I would rather be running late vs having a half hour break after each heat... I also plan to do a mock setup of the track and cameras before race day to make sure everything is working together... I can't do anything small and have to go all out even though it's the first event I'll be running, so full-blown cameras, building a start tree and so on
I'll probably have at least 4 cameras (overall track, start, finish and racers on deck) these will be composited into a single video feed using Open Broadcaster Software that is hooked into DerbyNets replay software as well a live projection on the wall... I already have done a dry run with the cameras, using multiple phones/laptops all hooked into an Open Broadcaster Software video server to composite them into a single virtual webcam that I can hook into DerbyNet relay feature... I understand the replay might add a bit of time, but I can't see my crew getting the next race staged and ready within the 10 seconds or so it will take for the replay to fire and play...
Awards will either be passed out after each level's heat, or delivered at a later date depending on time, no overall awards planned just the age level ones after each heat...
So much to get in order
Unlike a typical BSA Pack race most won't be staying the entire day as this is at the Girl Scouts service unit level, and unlike Cub Scouts girl scout packs are generally a single level so likely they will show up for their heat and leave, heats will be by Girl Scouts rank and will be scheduled ahead of time, thus the need for time estimates as to when people should show up for their heat as I expect people to leave after their heat unless they have a sibling in a later race.. Mostly trying to eliminate long breaks between heats due to over scheduling the time slot, I would rather be running late vs having a half hour break after each heat... I also plan to do a mock setup of the track and cameras before race day to make sure everything is working together... I can't do anything small and have to go all out even though it's the first event I'll be running, so full-blown cameras, building a start tree and so on
I'll probably have at least 4 cameras (overall track, start, finish and racers on deck) these will be composited into a single video feed using Open Broadcaster Software that is hooked into DerbyNets replay software as well a live projection on the wall... I already have done a dry run with the cameras, using multiple phones/laptops all hooked into an Open Broadcaster Software video server to composite them into a single virtual webcam that I can hook into DerbyNet relay feature... I understand the replay might add a bit of time, but I can't see my crew getting the next race staged and ready within the 10 seconds or so it will take for the replay to fire and play...Awards will either be passed out after each level's heat, or delivered at a later date depending on time, no overall awards planned just the age level ones after each heat...
So much to get in order
