Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

DIY timing systems
PeteA
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Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

Hi all,
New to the board, my name is Pete and I am trying to help out pack 33 in Boise. Our old DOS based timer is no longer functional. We have a derbytimer.com kit that I am trying to get up and running. My pc has a good working serial port and will communicate with GrandPrix software when I jumper pins 2 & 3 and send a command thru the hardware setup page.

This is where Im at and need to know if the micro controller has lost the instruction set. And if so how do I go about sending the hex data file to the controller?


Board is a wired to serial port
have steady red ready light
have bright whites on photo sensors
Start switch turns off red ready light for about 2 seconds when triggered then goes back to solid red.
red ready light blinks when start switch is held closed.

When trying to use GrandPrix race manager ver. 8.0.1620.3
have all custom timer setting input as per web page.
Com 1 selected, hit "start testing" and "test race" get yellow ready signal, trigger start gate and get no response in timer data.
If I hit start testing only and trigger start switch, I get the following data p? p??? p (or some variation of that).

If I use PicTimer Setup from web site I only get the message "Timer is not responding on Com 1"
If I try the Pinewood derby timer, I get error 8002 (invalid port number) in procedure cmdConnect_click of Form frmMain.

Any ides are welcome :idea:
Thanks
Pete :wall:
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gpraceman
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by gpraceman »

So, in the GPRM Hardware Options screen, you are getting some data, just not the data that you are expecting?
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

the only data (suspected error data ??p??pp) I get in the timer data box is when I hit start testing followed by triggering the start switch. Nothing if I do the test race.

Or I can jumper the serial port tx/rx pins and send recieve using the send comand box. ie. type/send start. returns start in timer data. Not connected to timer
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gpraceman
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by gpraceman »

PeteA wrote:Or I can jumper the serial port tx/rx pins and send recieve using the send comand box. ie. type/send start. returns start in timer data. Not connected to timer
You have me a little confused there. Whatever you type into the Command box is what you should see showing up in the Timer Data box, if you are shorting pins 2 and 3 together.
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

gpraceman wrote:
PeteA wrote:Or I can jumper the serial port tx/rx pins and send recieve using the send comand box. ie. type/send start. returns start in timer data. Not connected to timer
You have me a little confused there. Whatever you type into the Command box is what you should see showing up in the Timer Data box, if you are shorting pins 2 and 3 together.
you are correct, but that is the only time I get the expected response.
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gpraceman
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by gpraceman »

It does then seem that it is a timer firmware issue. I'm not sure if their firmware has a bootloader to reload the HEX file into the timer or not. Have you scoured that site for the procedure to load in new firmware?

I guess another possibility is that the PIC or MAX32 is bad. They are susceptible to electrostatic discharges (ESD). I'm not an EE, so I'm just guessing on that possibility.

Also, have you double checked how everything is wired up?
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

gpraceman wrote:It does then seem that it is a timer firmware issue. I'm not sure if their firmware has a bootloader to reload the HEX file into the timer or not. Have you scoured that site for the procedure to load in new firmware?

I guess another possibility is that the PIC or MAX32 is bad. They are susceptible to electrostatic discharges (ESD). I'm not an EE, so I'm just guessing on that possibility.

Also, have you double checked how everything is wired up?
I have been all over that web site. even managed to get a very vague email response from Bert?
He mentioned that the setup program on the site should take care of things but all I get with that is "timer not responding on com 1"
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gpraceman
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by gpraceman »

PeteA wrote:I have been all over that web site. even managed to get a very vague email response from Bert?
He mentioned that the setup program on the site should take care of things but all I get with that is "timer not responding on com 1"
Is the port you are using in fact COM 1? Is this a regular serial port or are you using a USB to Serial Adapter?

Unfortunately, Bert may not be able to provide too much help. He says he's working 15+ hours a day on a big long-term project.
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

yes com 1 is a std serial port. did a triple check on all the wiring per web site.

I am very familiar with esd and latchup having worked in the DRAM industry for nearly 20 years so I did take the necessary precautions.
I am assuming the Max32 chip would be a drop in replacement and the PIC would need to be programed if it was bad. Is that correct.

There is an onboard "port"/connector for programing but I have no idea how to use it or what other hardware/software would be needed.

:wall:
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gpraceman
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by gpraceman »

PeteA wrote:I am assuming the Max32 chip would be a drop in replacement and the PIC would need to be programed if it was bad. Is that correct.
Yes
PeteA wrote:There is an onboard "port"/connector for programing but I have no idea how to use it or what other hardware/software would be needed.
My understanding is that there is some type of programming device that you would have to use to directly program a PIC. Probably not too cheap of a device.

I assume also that you had checked closely for any solder splash crossing traces or bad solder joints.
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by RandyUnderwood »

PeteA,

First off double check all of your ground connections, especially if you soldered any - that's something i learned the hard way. Get a magnifying glass and double check any soldering you have done - and while you're at it double check any soldering anyone else has done.

The only way I could see the PIC or MAX being bad is through an ESD 'event' of some sort - also something I have learned the hard way.

Also check your start switch - double check that the lever is closing the switch when the gate is closed and that the switch is open when the gate is open - additionally, when your gate opens make sure that the gate doesn't rebound and close/re-open the switch - most timers don't like that.

Other than the above - if everything checks out ok - then yes perhaps you have a bad MAX or PIC - the way the system is behaving does not lead me to believe the MAX chip is bad - more than likely the PIC - if that's the problem and it's not messed so much that a reprogram can solve the problem then i'll have to look at the derbytimer.com site to see how to reprogram the thing - while you're checking the other things i'll see if i can figure out how to program the thing.

EDIT: ok I looked it up and it does not appear that the PCB that comes in the kit has an In-Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP) setup - so to reprogram it you'll have to pull the PIC, throw it in a PIC programmer (just google it) and load the hex file - downloadable from derbytimer.com. It's not too difficult - but you will need to get a programmer (you could build one too - but if you're on a deadline it'll be quicker to buy one).

EDIT #2: try this - http://microcontrollershop.com/product_ ... ts_id=1841
Randy Underwood
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

Thanks Guys for all the info and tips.

The only soldering that I have done so far is wiring an extension for the serial port. that I dont really need as the board wiring included the 9 pin connector to serial port (its just really short)
I have looked at all the solder joints and without out a microscope I can find no shorts, cold joints or anything that looks bad. I may try replacing the Max just for grins as it is an easy in/out as both IC's are socketed and not hard soldered in.

This is the rev. board we have and there is an ICSP, but if the pic is bad I may look into the site you provided. Thanks again.
Pete
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RandyUnderwood
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by RandyUnderwood »

well i guess i looked at the wrong kit - so since you have an ICSP just get that programmer and an ICSP cable http://microcontrollershop.com/product_ ... ts_id=2218, download the hex file http://derbytimer.com/diy/bin/pnwd877_hex.zip., unzip it and throw it on the PIC - if that doesn't fix it - then i'm stumped.

Just double check the switch and make sure it operates as expected.
Randy Underwood
PeteA
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by PeteA »

Well, ordered the programmer module, Max32 and PIC chips. Fedex tracking shows delivery today. Wish me luck for later today. Will let you know results.
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sporty
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Re: Help need with a Derbytimer.com timer

Post by sporty »

PeteA wrote:Well, ordered the programmer module, Max32 and PIC chips. Fedex tracking shows delivery today. Wish me luck for later today. Will let you know results.
You have kept us in suspence, on how things turned out, any updates and news ?

sporty
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