An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
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An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Per request of Fat Sebastian, And to say Thanks for your help to him.
And to Randy Davis of Maximum-Velocity.
Who started this topic on the BSA. Pinewood Derby kit history. July 26, 2007.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2860" target="_blank
That really inspired my interest in collecting and researching it's history.
Thank you for the use of your Pinewood Derby Times News Letter!
https://www.maximum-velocity.com/pinewo ... BSA%20kits.
UP - DATEING THE BSA KIT TOPIC .
by replacing the lost tiny pic images over to Imgur plus I will be adding a few new images for the viewer's as new discovery's are made and my collection grows.
The very first Pinewood Derby Car Kit ..
Well for that one we will need to look inside the Pinewood Derby founder's book.. Pinewood.
Call me lucky if you will.. I purchased the Book from Don Murphy himself back when he sold his very own book .
Some of the ads for his book could be seen in Boy's Life and Scouting magazines in 2001.
See list below:
Boy's Life May of 2001 pg 69.. then in July on pg 55.
Scouting Oct of 2001 pg 60, then in May Jul pg 47, and in Sept pg 59.
What some of these advertising ad's for his book looked like:
Today you can still get the book Pinewood here from:
https://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-history.php
( Thanks to Joe Gargiulo for taking it over and selling it exclusively.)
On Joe's web site.. You will also see some Pinewood Derby History Images where he shares and talks about the Pinewood Derby History as well.
However Viewer's
There are a few things that Don Murphy himself sent out with his book while he was the one selling it.
Things like his order card that he sent to give to your friends for his book .. and a photo card of Don Murphy.
You will no longer get these items with the book PINEWOOD when ordering it from Pinewood pro.
See that gold sticker on the front cover .. its from the 50th anniversary to the pinewood derby.. and the 70th anniversary is well on it's way.
The Founders autograph and date inside his book :
It was not long after that while right here on derby talk as a first time viewer myself.
Just 5 short month's later that I learned of the founder's passing.
The First Pinewood Derby car plan is seen
In Don Murphy's Book on page 19
There's also an image seen in his book of the kit components :
The racing kit was composed of one block of wood, two wooden axles, four nails, and four wheels.
The components were put in a brown paper sack and given a number.
I've put together an image in color to look somewhat like that of the first kit along with a vintage Scout handicraft chest.
The axle type were 8d penny finish nails.
So Here We Go From The Sack To The Track to the BSA Pinewood Derby kit's.
In the October 1954 Boys' Life on page 59 is a one page article written by Glenn Wagner,
it briefly describes the first pinewood derby race & Don Murphy's car plan drawing is seen.
At the bottom of the page it reads:
Plans for the track and starting mechanisms may be obtained by sending 15 cents to Boys' Life,
New Brunswick New Jersey... Request catalog 6-205.
(Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.)
Ok I'm going to say a little something here that I find interesting about the Pinewood Derby History..
From this car drawing seen on how to make the car in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life.. from this very time frame up until the first kit's were available in 1956.
The Pinewood Derby cars could have been constructed using what ever for the materials including the wheels and axles .
In early 1955 Boy Scout supply division buyer... Henry Henning was asked to find a supplier for the pinewood derby kits.
BSA contracted with Art Hasselbach with Beta crafts to make the official kits.
Also in this year BSA started advertising the pinewood derby kits in the June 1955 issue of Boys' Life, the summer issue of the Cub Scout Program Quarterly,
and in the Cub Scout Supply Catalogs for $2.75. In the Fall of 1957, the kit price seen in an ad for the kits changed to $2.95 for the 8 car bulk set's.
In 1956 Art's team shipped their first 80,000 kits to BSA and continued to ship the kits with his two companies Beta Crafts and his parent company Consolidated Models inc.
(Ran by his two son's Stephen & Arthur Jr.)
In 1960 Consolidated Models moved to Cranbury, NJ from it's original
New York city location & by the mid 60's began fabricating & packaging
the Pinewood Derby kits for the Boy Scouts of America exclusively
Here's a link to CMI Plastics:
https://cmiplastics.com/history/
( Please See the edit below for more info on this kit type.)
In 1974 CMI (Grand Prix) introduced a new version of the kit with several changes
Wider wheels offset axel positions still using the wooden axel supports and the large head type axles .
Then in 1977 one without the wooden axel supports using saw notches in the block using the same type wheels but with new pin head axle type
In Dec of 1999..When Art lost his contract with BSA.
The switch over to a new supplier began in 1998/99 when there were kits by two vendors! Beta crafts & Home crafters manufacturing (know as Kahoot)
In the last year for Beta crafts .. The kit could be identified by the black end flap on the box.. and wheels with sunken rims & larger diameter axles.
Home crafters (kahoot) kit by the orange end flap.
Hope you all don't mind if I share with you.. some images of Pinewood derby kits I have in a collection!
I will share the kit rules after words..
I'll start off with some image's of some early pinewood derby kit ads.. these pinewood derby kit ads were seen in the vintage 8 box space derby and rain gutter regatta boat kit contents.
Top Image you will see no price and in the 2nd you'll see a price of $ 2.95
Here is a little something different of what's seen above.. but for kit catalog number 1623.
Next is an Image that is seen in Don's Book Pinewood..
You will also see the image on the cover page to the June 1955 Cub Scout Quarterly Programs Guide Wheels Wings and Things.
June 1955 Wheels Wings and Things Showing Don Murphy's car Drawing and the Track Lay Out with a early BSA kit ad.
June 1955 Boy's Life ad:
Aug 1955 Boy's Life ad
Dec 1955 Cub Scout Supply ad:
Here is a image of an unusual kit ad showing large head axles for the first time:
Feb of 1964 Boy's Life.
The next image showing large head axle type was seen in the C.S.Q.P fall of 1965 :
June 1959 Boy's Life show's Art Hasselbach with Cub Scout Pack 197 Bronx New York.
Plus a little Pinewood Derby History is talked about and then..
the 8 car kit contents are talked about even the number decals and Pinewood Derby name plates.
Track plans:
Racing Chart:
Space derby ads in the kit paper work:
Regatta Boat ads as well:
8 Car box set kit contents.
Kit Type showing letter box name plate decals:
Decal name plate types:
Beta crafts 8 car bulk sets and single blister pack kits. 8 car kit Cat # 1699 shown 2nd image above.
image of end view 's of 8 car box 's showing price of $ 2.95 Note however the 1955 kit ads shown price for $ 2.75
The single blister packaging kits came out much later in the summer of 1961-74 catalog #1690 for 49cents
Summer of 1961 C.S.Q.P ad.
(Note: front of kit is marked 1690)
(Note back side view 1699 for the kit plans )
Here is a 8 car bulk set showing the kit contents once more.
Kit plan types: More details later on the two types:
The revised specification 8 car bulk set and true date & manufacture unknown.. guessing it to be a late 50's- 60's (Note: the hubs on the wheels and wheel style.)
(EDIT and up dated info about the kit seen below.)
After emailing Stephen Hasselbach Sr of CMI plastics about this cub scout kit I was told that he has never seen this kit.
However he thought it was made by them based of the car plans and the kit type and axles used alone.. And that there were some knock off kits of the official kit as well.
Note: Catalog number is 1699 and that no price is marked on the box and Official Cub Scout Kit and BSA supply is seen.
(This Kit Style was used in 1963 and 1964.)
Here's a link to photo image that is dated 1964.
https://www.ci.oswego.or.us/tools/libra ... .aspx?4405
click to enlarge image: to see image of this wheel style seen on 3 cars to the left in image.
Or of the same image that i have enlarged to the boy and his car in the upper left.
Here's a image of a Pinewood derby car I have in my collection using a different wheel style with a hub.
The car is dated 1964 and is also using 8 penny finish nails for axles.
I'll share the 8 car boxed kit .
close up view of wheel style:
More Images of the same type kit and of one that is all complete:
And an image of a web site showing this same kit:
Just a few cars I have using this unique wheel style:
(Note decal name plates look the same as to the early 8 car kit.. kit ads seen.)
And what the inner hub style looks like seen on the left.. to the1974 cmi wheel inner hub seen to the right:
And the tread width compared to the 1956 wheel seen to the right:
1970's 8 car set sold for $ 3.25
Price marked out on this on.
Decals and kit paper work. Note orange decals!
Here's something rare..
Expert help and tips from Dremel tool.. with car patterns were also seen in the kit paper work as well.
(EDIT:)
In the kit add seen above you'll see a date of 11-74 at the bottom right of the page.
This was the very last pinewood derby kit add seen for the 1956 pinewood derby car kit type.
(I would like to thank Jeff of project pinewood for passing on this info to me.)
He was a Cub Scout back in the 70's and he could recall building & racing a car with the new kit style back in 1976.
Here is the info he passed my way threw an email.
He told me of an add he had got some help with threw BSA directly
And how they put him in touch with the National Scouting Museum to scour threw old catalogs and Magazines.
Where he happen to find reference in the Nov-Dec 1974 Scouting magazine vol 62, number 8, on page 6.
(New Version Of An Old Winner)
NOTE: the catalog numbers seen in the add above!
Single kit's no:1622 75 cents.
Kit of 8 ( box set) no: 1623 $ 4.50
Here is a link to a web site that I found just one day before getting the email from Jeff.
Check out the Dates on the cars seen and the last car seen that's dated as 1975.
https://boles.com/archives/pinewood-derby.html
And then a photo of the bottom side of this car that was shared with me at a local pinewood derby
by its owner that is dated 1977 using the solid block with the saw notches for the axles.
This type can also be seen in the Dec 1977 Boy's Life On page 54-56
https://books.google.com/books?id=0k3vZ ... 56&f=false
Images of the kit plans from the 8 car kits:
Check out cat # 1623 and CM seen lower right But No Date seen ( 1974 ?)
Back Side of the single kit Plans Cat # 1622
In the next image you see CMI 77 in the plans to a 8 box kit Cat # 1623
Now the back side of single CMI 77 kit plan Cat #1623
( Photos of the CMI 8 car box and single kit types and changes.)
Wooden axle support type 1974 and the saw notch kit type 1977.
In this year extra wheel sets were available from the scout dealer catalog #1623-A
Note: The IMPORTANT NOTICE! Paper in this kit.
It reads: On the reverse side of this package under racing specifications.
Point # 1 states:
Width-overall width shall not exceed 3".
This specification should be changed to:
overall width not to exceed 2 3/4".
CMI 1980's kits..( Last for the 8 car kits cat# 1623) Single kit cat# 1622
Okay I'm going give you viewers an inside look of this kit as well.
Decals type:
Car plans:
Track plans:
Racing chart:
Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, and Regatta boat ads:
Kit block and cardboard box housing the wheels and axles:
Side views:
Next image show's continents from the small boxed single kit:
Bulk kit and small boxed kits:
( The small boxed kit was offered after the blister pack kit seen below I want to say. 1984 or 85 for a time frame.)
Extra wheel sets that were offered in plastic packing and axle set's :
The extra axle sets came in a pack of 12 axles:
1988 kits.. Cat# 1622
Beta crafts & CMI ?
Extra wheel and axle sets seen on bottom in small box's on 2nd image:
1994/95?? Beta crafts kit Cat # 1622
1998?99 Beta crafts last.. black end flap on box cat# 17006
Kit plans image note 94 in upper right:
Note car body block has no cockpit cut out now and how this is the last of the 1977 car plans instruction sheet see threw the years .
Kahoot kit.. orange end flap on box. cat # 17006
(note 97 is seen in the top right of the car plans.)
Different wheel styles for this kit.. The first style no raised BSA lettering seen in top of pic and 2nd style bottom.
extra wheel sets:
2005 Cub scouts anniversary kit: cat# 17006
2009 kit.. Cat# 17006
Colored wheel set 's in this year did not have the coned hub.. that took place in 2010.
1997 Beta crafts Big Rig Kit.. Cat# 7611 sold for $ 12.95
2009/2010.. 100th Anniversary Big Rig kit.. Home crafters kahoot. cat # 24342
2009 kits did not come out with the white sleave trailer for painting in 2010 they were added to the kit.
Plans show it in the bottom diagram of the trailer detail:
More Home crafter's Kahoot kits threw the years:
1st kit 2008 Jeff Gordon Race into the Future kit cat# 17008
2nd kit gift kit. cat# 17008
3rd kit 2009-10 cat# 17006
4th kit 2012 cat#17006
5th kit 2013 cat# 17006
6th kit gift kit cat# 17000
7th kits 2020 cat# 17006
2020 extra wheel sets .. black light or glow in the dark wheels.
SORRY FOR SUCH A LONG POST ON THE KIT PHOTOS THREW THE YEARS.
I'll start on the kit rules later Thanks Guys.
Info on the kits catalog numbers..
1955/56-76.. 8 car bulk set cat no. 1699
From what I know as a collector & having a lot of vintage Cub Scout supply catalogs ect.
The first ad for the individual kit was not seen in them until summer 1961/62. Cat no. 1690 $ .49 cents
And in the ad seen above in 1974 for .59 cents
1977 CMI Grand Prix kits..
Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kit cat no.1622 extra wheel sets cat # 1623-A
1980's kits.. Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kits cat no.1622 Wheel sets cat no. 1622 A
1988 kits.. individual kit cat no.1622, wheel sets were bar code. 17007 7
1994/95?? kits.. bar code cat no. 17006 0 wheel sets 17007 7
1998/99 Beta crafts cat no.17006 0 Kahoot cat no.#17006 wheel sets cat no. 17007 7
In this year two rules were added.. that the car must be built in the current year.. and no loose materials of any kind are permitted on the car.
2009 100th Anniv kit cat no.17006 Big Rig Racing kit # 24342
75th Anniv kit was cat no.#17075
1997 Big Rig Kit cat no. #7611
Pinewood Derby kit plans & rules..
From the photos shown to the right hand side.. I want to point out sometime that took place in the late 50's or early 60's
The Notice seen.. on the plan to the right. (Revised Specification kit)
The NOTICE..Reads, This is the new pinewood derby Specifications as authorized by the
Pinewood derby Rules Committee. The revisions were made to encourage variation in
car designs and increase performance.
Heres a close up of the two plans:
From these plans and rules.. I'll share a few of the racing specifications.
(1) width - overall shall not exceed 2 3/4''
(2) length - overall shall not exceed 7 3/8''
At the top of the photo.. to the left we see that the chassis are not to be lowered below 3/8''
(3) weight shall not exceed 5 oz. no loose materials of any kind are permitted in the car.
no wheel bearings, washers, bushings, or springing! ect.. ect. (as we know it!)
In the building hits.. one can read.. polish nails & lightly lubricate.
remove rough edges from wheels (also)
1974 wooden axle support kit and showing plans:
1974 CMI and 77 saw notched axle kit plans Image back side single blister pack kits:
From here we see the racing specifications.. change up the car!
(1) width-overall 2 3/4"
(2) length - overall not to exceed 7"
rest of the rules the same.
(as seen in the earlier photos of the kit that had an important notice)
1980's kits..
1988 kits..
1994/95?? kits..
1998/99 Beta crafts last..
look at the number seen at the top right
seen on the plan 94????
1998/99 Homecrafters kit..
look at number 97???? seen at the top right of the plan.
This kit came with BSA pinewood derby side walls wheels or with out any logo on the side walls that are very rare.
And smaller diameter size axels.
2009 kit..
This kit has been known to come with the wheels with coned hubs 2.6 gram
And the older wheel style mixed in the kits!
from here on the rules are much in the same..
Happy to share this info with all of you on Derby Talk, And to do a greater good for the kids, or anyone interested in the kit history.
And to Randy Davis of Maximum-Velocity.
Who started this topic on the BSA. Pinewood Derby kit history. July 26, 2007.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2860" target="_blank
That really inspired my interest in collecting and researching it's history.
Thank you for the use of your Pinewood Derby Times News Letter!
https://www.maximum-velocity.com/pinewo ... BSA%20kits.
UP - DATEING THE BSA KIT TOPIC .
by replacing the lost tiny pic images over to Imgur plus I will be adding a few new images for the viewer's as new discovery's are made and my collection grows.
The very first Pinewood Derby Car Kit ..
Well for that one we will need to look inside the Pinewood Derby founder's book.. Pinewood.
Call me lucky if you will.. I purchased the Book from Don Murphy himself back when he sold his very own book .
Some of the ads for his book could be seen in Boy's Life and Scouting magazines in 2001.
See list below:
Boy's Life May of 2001 pg 69.. then in July on pg 55.
Scouting Oct of 2001 pg 60, then in May Jul pg 47, and in Sept pg 59.
What some of these advertising ad's for his book looked like:
Today you can still get the book Pinewood here from:
https://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-history.php
( Thanks to Joe Gargiulo for taking it over and selling it exclusively.)
On Joe's web site.. You will also see some Pinewood Derby History Images where he shares and talks about the Pinewood Derby History as well.
However Viewer's
There are a few things that Don Murphy himself sent out with his book while he was the one selling it.
Things like his order card that he sent to give to your friends for his book .. and a photo card of Don Murphy.
You will no longer get these items with the book PINEWOOD when ordering it from Pinewood pro.
See that gold sticker on the front cover .. its from the 50th anniversary to the pinewood derby.. and the 70th anniversary is well on it's way.
The Founders autograph and date inside his book :
It was not long after that while right here on derby talk as a first time viewer myself.
Just 5 short month's later that I learned of the founder's passing.
The First Pinewood Derby car plan is seen
In Don Murphy's Book on page 19
There's also an image seen in his book of the kit components :
The racing kit was composed of one block of wood, two wooden axles, four nails, and four wheels.
The components were put in a brown paper sack and given a number.
I've put together an image in color to look somewhat like that of the first kit along with a vintage Scout handicraft chest.
The axle type were 8d penny finish nails.
So Here We Go From The Sack To The Track to the BSA Pinewood Derby kit's.
In the October 1954 Boys' Life on page 59 is a one page article written by Glenn Wagner,
it briefly describes the first pinewood derby race & Don Murphy's car plan drawing is seen.
At the bottom of the page it reads:
Plans for the track and starting mechanisms may be obtained by sending 15 cents to Boys' Life,
New Brunswick New Jersey... Request catalog 6-205.
(Click on the images to enlarge them if needed.)
Ok I'm going to say a little something here that I find interesting about the Pinewood Derby History..
From this car drawing seen on how to make the car in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life.. from this very time frame up until the first kit's were available in 1956.
The Pinewood Derby cars could have been constructed using what ever for the materials including the wheels and axles .
In early 1955 Boy Scout supply division buyer... Henry Henning was asked to find a supplier for the pinewood derby kits.
BSA contracted with Art Hasselbach with Beta crafts to make the official kits.
Also in this year BSA started advertising the pinewood derby kits in the June 1955 issue of Boys' Life, the summer issue of the Cub Scout Program Quarterly,
and in the Cub Scout Supply Catalogs for $2.75. In the Fall of 1957, the kit price seen in an ad for the kits changed to $2.95 for the 8 car bulk set's.
In 1956 Art's team shipped their first 80,000 kits to BSA and continued to ship the kits with his two companies Beta Crafts and his parent company Consolidated Models inc.
(Ran by his two son's Stephen & Arthur Jr.)
In 1960 Consolidated Models moved to Cranbury, NJ from it's original
New York city location & by the mid 60's began fabricating & packaging
the Pinewood Derby kits for the Boy Scouts of America exclusively
Here's a link to CMI Plastics:
https://cmiplastics.com/history/
( Please See the edit below for more info on this kit type.)
In 1974 CMI (Grand Prix) introduced a new version of the kit with several changes
Wider wheels offset axel positions still using the wooden axel supports and the large head type axles .
Then in 1977 one without the wooden axel supports using saw notches in the block using the same type wheels but with new pin head axle type
In Dec of 1999..When Art lost his contract with BSA.
The switch over to a new supplier began in 1998/99 when there were kits by two vendors! Beta crafts & Home crafters manufacturing (know as Kahoot)
In the last year for Beta crafts .. The kit could be identified by the black end flap on the box.. and wheels with sunken rims & larger diameter axles.
Home crafters (kahoot) kit by the orange end flap.
Hope you all don't mind if I share with you.. some images of Pinewood derby kits I have in a collection!
I will share the kit rules after words..
I'll start off with some image's of some early pinewood derby kit ads.. these pinewood derby kit ads were seen in the vintage 8 box space derby and rain gutter regatta boat kit contents.
Top Image you will see no price and in the 2nd you'll see a price of $ 2.95
Here is a little something different of what's seen above.. but for kit catalog number 1623.
Next is an Image that is seen in Don's Book Pinewood..
You will also see the image on the cover page to the June 1955 Cub Scout Quarterly Programs Guide Wheels Wings and Things.
June 1955 Wheels Wings and Things Showing Don Murphy's car Drawing and the Track Lay Out with a early BSA kit ad.
June 1955 Boy's Life ad:
Aug 1955 Boy's Life ad
Dec 1955 Cub Scout Supply ad:
Here is a image of an unusual kit ad showing large head axles for the first time:
Feb of 1964 Boy's Life.
The next image showing large head axle type was seen in the C.S.Q.P fall of 1965 :
June 1959 Boy's Life show's Art Hasselbach with Cub Scout Pack 197 Bronx New York.
Plus a little Pinewood Derby History is talked about and then..
the 8 car kit contents are talked about even the number decals and Pinewood Derby name plates.
Track plans:
Racing Chart:
Space derby ads in the kit paper work:
Regatta Boat ads as well:
8 Car box set kit contents.
Kit Type showing letter box name plate decals:
Decal name plate types:
Beta crafts 8 car bulk sets and single blister pack kits. 8 car kit Cat # 1699 shown 2nd image above.
image of end view 's of 8 car box 's showing price of $ 2.95 Note however the 1955 kit ads shown price for $ 2.75
The single blister packaging kits came out much later in the summer of 1961-74 catalog #1690 for 49cents
Summer of 1961 C.S.Q.P ad.
(Note: front of kit is marked 1690)
(Note back side view 1699 for the kit plans )
Here is a 8 car bulk set showing the kit contents once more.
Kit plan types: More details later on the two types:
The revised specification 8 car bulk set and true date & manufacture unknown.. guessing it to be a late 50's- 60's (Note: the hubs on the wheels and wheel style.)
(EDIT and up dated info about the kit seen below.)
After emailing Stephen Hasselbach Sr of CMI plastics about this cub scout kit I was told that he has never seen this kit.
However he thought it was made by them based of the car plans and the kit type and axles used alone.. And that there were some knock off kits of the official kit as well.
Note: Catalog number is 1699 and that no price is marked on the box and Official Cub Scout Kit and BSA supply is seen.
(This Kit Style was used in 1963 and 1964.)
Here's a link to photo image that is dated 1964.
https://www.ci.oswego.or.us/tools/libra ... .aspx?4405
click to enlarge image: to see image of this wheel style seen on 3 cars to the left in image.
Or of the same image that i have enlarged to the boy and his car in the upper left.
Here's a image of a Pinewood derby car I have in my collection using a different wheel style with a hub.
The car is dated 1964 and is also using 8 penny finish nails for axles.
I'll share the 8 car boxed kit .
close up view of wheel style:
More Images of the same type kit and of one that is all complete:
And an image of a web site showing this same kit:
Just a few cars I have using this unique wheel style:
(Note decal name plates look the same as to the early 8 car kit.. kit ads seen.)
And what the inner hub style looks like seen on the left.. to the1974 cmi wheel inner hub seen to the right:
And the tread width compared to the 1956 wheel seen to the right:
1970's 8 car set sold for $ 3.25
Price marked out on this on.
Decals and kit paper work. Note orange decals!
Here's something rare..
Expert help and tips from Dremel tool.. with car patterns were also seen in the kit paper work as well.
(EDIT:)
In the kit add seen above you'll see a date of 11-74 at the bottom right of the page.
This was the very last pinewood derby kit add seen for the 1956 pinewood derby car kit type.
(I would like to thank Jeff of project pinewood for passing on this info to me.)
He was a Cub Scout back in the 70's and he could recall building & racing a car with the new kit style back in 1976.
Here is the info he passed my way threw an email.
He told me of an add he had got some help with threw BSA directly
And how they put him in touch with the National Scouting Museum to scour threw old catalogs and Magazines.
Where he happen to find reference in the Nov-Dec 1974 Scouting magazine vol 62, number 8, on page 6.
(New Version Of An Old Winner)
NOTE: the catalog numbers seen in the add above!
Single kit's no:1622 75 cents.
Kit of 8 ( box set) no: 1623 $ 4.50
Here is a link to a web site that I found just one day before getting the email from Jeff.
Check out the Dates on the cars seen and the last car seen that's dated as 1975.
https://boles.com/archives/pinewood-derby.html
And then a photo of the bottom side of this car that was shared with me at a local pinewood derby
by its owner that is dated 1977 using the solid block with the saw notches for the axles.
This type can also be seen in the Dec 1977 Boy's Life On page 54-56
https://books.google.com/books?id=0k3vZ ... 56&f=false
Images of the kit plans from the 8 car kits:
Check out cat # 1623 and CM seen lower right But No Date seen ( 1974 ?)
Back Side of the single kit Plans Cat # 1622
In the next image you see CMI 77 in the plans to a 8 box kit Cat # 1623
Now the back side of single CMI 77 kit plan Cat #1623
( Photos of the CMI 8 car box and single kit types and changes.)
Wooden axle support type 1974 and the saw notch kit type 1977.
In this year extra wheel sets were available from the scout dealer catalog #1623-A
Note: The IMPORTANT NOTICE! Paper in this kit.
It reads: On the reverse side of this package under racing specifications.
Point # 1 states:
Width-overall width shall not exceed 3".
This specification should be changed to:
overall width not to exceed 2 3/4".
CMI 1980's kits..( Last for the 8 car kits cat# 1623) Single kit cat# 1622
Okay I'm going give you viewers an inside look of this kit as well.
Decals type:
Car plans:
Track plans:
Racing chart:
Pinewood Derby, Space Derby, and Regatta boat ads:
Kit block and cardboard box housing the wheels and axles:
Side views:
Next image show's continents from the small boxed single kit:
Bulk kit and small boxed kits:
( The small boxed kit was offered after the blister pack kit seen below I want to say. 1984 or 85 for a time frame.)
Extra wheel sets that were offered in plastic packing and axle set's :
The extra axle sets came in a pack of 12 axles:
1988 kits.. Cat# 1622
Beta crafts & CMI ?
Extra wheel and axle sets seen on bottom in small box's on 2nd image:
1994/95?? Beta crafts kit Cat # 1622
1998?99 Beta crafts last.. black end flap on box cat# 17006
Kit plans image note 94 in upper right:
Note car body block has no cockpit cut out now and how this is the last of the 1977 car plans instruction sheet see threw the years .
Kahoot kit.. orange end flap on box. cat # 17006
(note 97 is seen in the top right of the car plans.)
Different wheel styles for this kit.. The first style no raised BSA lettering seen in top of pic and 2nd style bottom.
extra wheel sets:
2005 Cub scouts anniversary kit: cat# 17006
2009 kit.. Cat# 17006
Colored wheel set 's in this year did not have the coned hub.. that took place in 2010.
1997 Beta crafts Big Rig Kit.. Cat# 7611 sold for $ 12.95
2009/2010.. 100th Anniversary Big Rig kit.. Home crafters kahoot. cat # 24342
2009 kits did not come out with the white sleave trailer for painting in 2010 they were added to the kit.
Plans show it in the bottom diagram of the trailer detail:
More Home crafter's Kahoot kits threw the years:
1st kit 2008 Jeff Gordon Race into the Future kit cat# 17008
2nd kit gift kit. cat# 17008
3rd kit 2009-10 cat# 17006
4th kit 2012 cat#17006
5th kit 2013 cat# 17006
6th kit gift kit cat# 17000
7th kits 2020 cat# 17006
2020 extra wheel sets .. black light or glow in the dark wheels.
SORRY FOR SUCH A LONG POST ON THE KIT PHOTOS THREW THE YEARS.
I'll start on the kit rules later Thanks Guys.
Info on the kits catalog numbers..
1955/56-76.. 8 car bulk set cat no. 1699
From what I know as a collector & having a lot of vintage Cub Scout supply catalogs ect.
The first ad for the individual kit was not seen in them until summer 1961/62. Cat no. 1690 $ .49 cents
And in the ad seen above in 1974 for .59 cents
1977 CMI Grand Prix kits..
Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kit cat no.1622 extra wheel sets cat # 1623-A
1980's kits.. Bulk set cat no.1623, individual kits cat no.1622 Wheel sets cat no. 1622 A
1988 kits.. individual kit cat no.1622, wheel sets were bar code. 17007 7
1994/95?? kits.. bar code cat no. 17006 0 wheel sets 17007 7
1998/99 Beta crafts cat no.17006 0 Kahoot cat no.#17006 wheel sets cat no. 17007 7
In this year two rules were added.. that the car must be built in the current year.. and no loose materials of any kind are permitted on the car.
2009 100th Anniv kit cat no.17006 Big Rig Racing kit # 24342
75th Anniv kit was cat no.#17075
1997 Big Rig Kit cat no. #7611
Pinewood Derby kit plans & rules..
From the photos shown to the right hand side.. I want to point out sometime that took place in the late 50's or early 60's
The Notice seen.. on the plan to the right. (Revised Specification kit)
The NOTICE..Reads, This is the new pinewood derby Specifications as authorized by the
Pinewood derby Rules Committee. The revisions were made to encourage variation in
car designs and increase performance.
Heres a close up of the two plans:
From these plans and rules.. I'll share a few of the racing specifications.
(1) width - overall shall not exceed 2 3/4''
(2) length - overall shall not exceed 7 3/8''
At the top of the photo.. to the left we see that the chassis are not to be lowered below 3/8''
(3) weight shall not exceed 5 oz. no loose materials of any kind are permitted in the car.
no wheel bearings, washers, bushings, or springing! ect.. ect. (as we know it!)
In the building hits.. one can read.. polish nails & lightly lubricate.
remove rough edges from wheels (also)
1974 wooden axle support kit and showing plans:
1974 CMI and 77 saw notched axle kit plans Image back side single blister pack kits:
From here we see the racing specifications.. change up the car!
(1) width-overall 2 3/4"
(2) length - overall not to exceed 7"
rest of the rules the same.
(as seen in the earlier photos of the kit that had an important notice)
1980's kits..
1988 kits..
1994/95?? kits..
1998/99 Beta crafts last..
look at the number seen at the top right
seen on the plan 94????
1998/99 Homecrafters kit..
look at number 97???? seen at the top right of the plan.
This kit came with BSA pinewood derby side walls wheels or with out any logo on the side walls that are very rare.
And smaller diameter size axels.
2009 kit..
This kit has been known to come with the wheels with coned hubs 2.6 gram
And the older wheel style mixed in the kits!
from here on the rules are much in the same..
Happy to share this info with all of you on Derby Talk, And to do a greater good for the kids, or anyone interested in the kit history.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:20 pm, edited 150 times in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
That was cool!
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Thanks Joe!
At the time on the topic..
I wanted to share some PWD kits that I had in a collection
that were the 8 car bulk sets or that were different and not shared.
I still use Randy Davis PWD News letter that he started about the kit history in full.
I started collecting the kits soon after reading his news letter and asking hem if I could use it!
And at the time..
I diden't know that the collection I was trying to put together would be what it is today.
So when I display the kits I have collected on the kit history I only do so for all to enjoy.
Mark.
At the time on the topic..
I wanted to share some PWD kits that I had in a collection
that were the 8 car bulk sets or that were different and not shared.
I still use Randy Davis PWD News letter that he started about the kit history in full.
I started collecting the kits soon after reading his news letter and asking hem if I could use it!
And at the time..
I diden't know that the collection I was trying to put together would be what it is today.
So when I display the kits I have collected on the kit history I only do so for all to enjoy.
Mark.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Quite the tour de force Mark. I saw my CMI kit. Still have my cars.
Noskills
Noskills
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
Napoleon Dynamite
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Thanks Seth,
I just wanted to share some photos of some of the past PWD car kits.
So that all who have raced a car.. or just enjoy the event.
Could look back on to recall what kit types were used for making there first PWD cars..
or for the ones who enjoy the event to see some of the early PWD kits types.
Seth,
You know what is really cool and different from all the PWD kits types?
I'll start with Don Murphy's car drawing seen in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life .. Then show some 1955 PWD kit ads.
What do you see being used for axles in this drawing?
(8 penny finishing nails for the axles right!)
What are you see being used for the axles in the 1955 PWD Kit ad photos
What about now.. what are you seeing used for the axles in this 1964 kit ad Photo?
For the BSA & Beta Crafts PWD car kits
So a little bit of Pinewood Derby car kit trivia for you..
BSA, Beta Crafts or CMI and Home crafters.. has never made or sold a Pinewood derby car kit that used the 8 penny finishing nails for axles.
I just wanted to share some photos of some of the past PWD car kits.
So that all who have raced a car.. or just enjoy the event.
Could look back on to recall what kit types were used for making there first PWD cars..
or for the ones who enjoy the event to see some of the early PWD kits types.
Seth,
You know what is really cool and different from all the PWD kits types?
I'll start with Don Murphy's car drawing seen in the Oct 1954 Boy's Life .. Then show some 1955 PWD kit ads.
What do you see being used for axles in this drawing?
(8 penny finishing nails for the axles right!)
What are you see being used for the axles in the 1955 PWD Kit ad photos
What about now.. what are you seeing used for the axles in this 1964 kit ad Photo?
For the BSA & Beta Crafts PWD car kits
So a little bit of Pinewood Derby car kit trivia for you..
BSA, Beta Crafts or CMI and Home crafters.. has never made or sold a Pinewood derby car kit that used the 8 penny finishing nails for axles.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Mark,
What brought me back was the fact that the CMI kits from the 80 show a wedge design in the instruction with the back cut off. Here the smaller distance from the axel cut to the front is shown as the front of the car. This is the exact way I build my first car. I will have to post a picture. I re beer cutting it by hand on my dining room table. Neither parent was good with tools. But it finished the race!
Seth
What brought me back was the fact that the CMI kits from the 80 show a wedge design in the instruction with the back cut off. Here the smaller distance from the axel cut to the front is shown as the front of the car. This is the exact way I build my first car. I will have to post a picture. I re beer cutting it by hand on my dining room table. Neither parent was good with tools. But it finished the race!
Seth
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
Napoleon Dynamite
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Seth,
Well that's differen't also and I know what your saying about this wedge car design.
I wounder why this same wedge car design was seen on alot of the instruction sheets going on in to the 80's threw 90's as well.
And why on the instruction sheets: That it was also marked in the uper right hand side as CMI 77.
The wooden axles surports were not shown in the car blue print however the saw notched axel slots were seen in the car drawing.
Well that's differen't also and I know what your saying about this wedge car design.
I wounder why this same wedge car design was seen on alot of the instruction sheets going on in to the 80's threw 90's as well.
And why on the instruction sheets: That it was also marked in the uper right hand side as CMI 77.
The wooden axles surports were not shown in the car blue print however the saw notched axel slots were seen in the car drawing.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
I would like thank Randy with Maximum-Velocity who started this kit history info.
It was also Randy who put me in contact with Jeff of project pinewood threw email.
(sometime back!)
Anyhow Jeff felt like the info on the 1977 CMI kit was wrong for the date when this kit type was first used.
Like Jeff- I felt the same way about it just based off of some of the kits I had in a small collection at the time.
And had show'ed to Jeff on his web site.
It has been a good long while since Jeff and I have talked threw email as well.
So Jeff.
If you see this topic:
Thanks for sharing your findings that you have shared with me about these kits.
As i will be editing the topic.. This is for you!
Whodathunkit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It was also Randy who put me in contact with Jeff of project pinewood threw email.
(sometime back!)
Anyhow Jeff felt like the info on the 1977 CMI kit was wrong for the date when this kit type was first used.
Like Jeff- I felt the same way about it just based off of some of the kits I had in a small collection at the time.
And had show'ed to Jeff on his web site.
It has been a good long while since Jeff and I have talked threw email as well.
So Jeff.
If you see this topic:
Thanks for sharing your findings that you have shared with me about these kits.
As i will be editing the topic.. This is for you!
Whodathunkit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
I have revisited this topic on the pinewood derby kits threw the years and I have up dated the lost tiny pic images to imgur .
Plus I have added a few more images for viewing.. ( just scroll up to see the older topic.)
Thanks to Speedster & Eagle.. For telling me that I needed to get the kit history info back on DT before it was lost.
And because I know that most kid's in Scouting will never get a chance to see the past Pinewood Derby kits or its History in images if some one dose not share it with them.
For the Adults a chance to finally say to there kids or grandkids in Cub Scouts .. you see that kit that's the one I used when I was a Cub Scout.
And to Andy and Noah of A8htk.. Guy's thank you for your history display board and sign placard's seen on your topic
https://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php ... lay#p82916
I proudly share it as well as it can be seen in the image below along the wall.
I'm the guy seen in the Scouting uniform who enjoys showing and sharing what I have discovered threw collecting of the Pinewood Derby and it's History.
Whoda.
Plus I have added a few more images for viewing.. ( just scroll up to see the older topic.)
Thanks to Speedster & Eagle.. For telling me that I needed to get the kit history info back on DT before it was lost.
And because I know that most kid's in Scouting will never get a chance to see the past Pinewood Derby kits or its History in images if some one dose not share it with them.
For the Adults a chance to finally say to there kids or grandkids in Cub Scouts .. you see that kit that's the one I used when I was a Cub Scout.
And to Andy and Noah of A8htk.. Guy's thank you for your history display board and sign placard's seen on your topic
https://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php ... lay#p82916
I proudly share it as well as it can be seen in the image below along the wall.
I'm the guy seen in the Scouting uniform who enjoys showing and sharing what I have discovered threw collecting of the Pinewood Derby and it's History.
Whoda.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
WOW ! Thanks Whoda. What a Great History !
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Thanks Speedster,
I'm looking into getting that book started you want me to write..
If I can just get past all the editing stages from all the ( 136 edits) I have done above on my typo's on the topic so far.
Eagle,
Sorry, I know that you wanted me to go in grate detail so you could enjoy your coffee and donuts in the hang tag kit section.
2009 -10 Kahoot Cat# 614417
It's the only one I have in my collection.
I'm looking into getting that book started you want me to write..
If I can just get past all the editing stages from all the ( 136 edits) I have done above on my typo's on the topic so far.
Eagle,
Sorry, I know that you wanted me to go in grate detail so you could enjoy your coffee and donuts in the hang tag kit section.
2009 -10 Kahoot Cat# 614417
It's the only one I have in my collection.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:06 pm, edited 15 times in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Well that is a beauty, and one I have not seen before.
Really good to see all the pictures back and the updates.
Really good to see all the pictures back and the updates.
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Thanks Eagle,
I recall you asking me a really good kit history question? ( when did the BSA fenders kits come out for the cars)
Well one of the very first kits that had you make fenders with balsa was the 1997 Big rig kit on the conventional cab truck..
However I know your talking for the cars.
When the big rig kit was new in 97 so were some of the first plastic fender accessories for the cars from BSA.
See Image # 4
Here's some rare pinewood derby add on's that were in clear plastic.
Balsa fender craftsman kit in the kahoot time fame.
Then there was this pinewood fender kit:
It's a good thing I marked the back side winter of 2009 because I was going to say 2009-2010 time frame.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
I did a little research as well. Preparing for a couple special new classes for next years 70th Anniversary of Pinewood Derby at http://www.TheWestCoastGrandPrix.com Plastic fenders are shown on the opposite side of instructions for 97 orange flap kit. I wonder if Pinecar had similar around the same time.
- whodathunkit
- Pine Head Legend
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:56 pm
- Location: Forgan, OK
Re: An interesting off-season topic.. the BSA kit's
Well Eagle,
( Now that's one I don't know... as to what year of manufacture.)
Some of there kits with a car template and the plastic prefabricated fenders .. I can think of.
Screamin' Eagle , Batcar, & I think Starfire & Thunderbolt were maybe some with the fenders also.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?