Axle Oiling

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
sirslotalot1
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Axle Oiling

Post by sirslotalot1 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:39 pm

I am looking for ideas on the best oil and the best way to apply the oil on axles.

I have read about a couple of different oils, but are there others?

What would be the best way to apply the oil? Has anyone ever tried to soak the axles in oil and then heat them in an oven? I remember an old friend of mine who use to moto cross race. He would remove his chain, insert into a pan of oil and bake it in an oven for a few hours.He claimed that this process would "impregnate" the oil into the chain and thus stay lubricated longer.



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by Rukkian » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:38 pm

There may be others out there that have tried something to that effect, but as far as longevity, that really does not come into play, as with most of the oils that are typically used (krytox, nyoil, xoil), they will more than likely last more runs these cars would probably do. The typical application of these is to put it on the axel, spin the wheel for awhile, and then wipe all the oil off the axel, and that should last 30-40 runs at least.

The only way that longevity would probably be an issue is if you need to have the cars impounded for a long period of time before racing (5-7+ days).



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FatSebastian
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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by FatSebastian » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:06 pm

sirslotalot1 wrote:Has anyone ever tried to soak the axles in oil and then heat them in an oven?
The low-viscosity oils typically used for PWD competition might likely evaporate under that much heat.



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sporty
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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sporty » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:09 am

So many out there have tried many different kinds of oils, allot are looking for ways to go faster and run many heats.


I do not know of any better oils or processes then what I have shared or spoke about in the past.


I have yet to see a oil last longer than 5 to 7 days either, that were not thick and slowed the car more than what graphite does.

Oil quencing is common in heat treating steal and to reduce rust as it awaits to be used or sold. But often, they still rust over time and still are not for applications for super speed and less friction loads. They slow the cars down.

Thats why many are using a wax and teflon combinations with the axles and wheel bores. Get really fast cars through the process also. Someone always trying to find a different product or process in addition with oil for more speed.

The thicker oils that can last longer, just make the cars so slow, same with bake on coatings for the type of racing and application as pinewood derby cars.

50-75 runs is pretty darn good for oil application / wax mix process. but still 5 to 7 days. Graphite seems to still last the longest in just sitting. but does not last many runs. 12-16 if you are lucky.

I know a guy who has spent I bet over $1,000 on different oils to go faster and last longer, and has yet to come up with a major break through. It might be out there somewhere to be found, but just not yet.

Sporty



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sirslotalot1 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:39 am

Rukkian,
So you metioned Krytox, Nyoil and Xoil. Are these the current state of the art oils used in PWD?

Is you process of applying these oils the current state of the art process used by racers?

The process you describe seems simple enough and makes sense. Do you wipe out the wheel bore also, or just wipe off the axle?

Sporty,
Thats a lot of runs. Are there races of any type (Pack or proxy) that would demand that many runs on a single application of oil or be impounded for up to or more than 5-7 days?

Can you be specific about the wax and teflon combinatins used? What wax? What Teflon? What combinations used, what percentage of mixture? Is there a special way of mixing them? How are they being applied to the axle and wheel bore? Are they left on, broken in, wiped off? Etc.

Thanks everyone.



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sporty
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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sporty » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:00 am

Pm sent



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by murphken » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:14 am

I have done extensive research on oils and still use just plain old Krytox GPL100. I might change in the future but right now, I just cannot find anything faster.
We don't use oil for Scout races but use it for other venues.
Murph


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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by Rukkian » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:47 am

I am by no means an expert - this is the first year we have used oil, and the first year we have done a rail rider, but I have been around this forum for over a year (mainly lurking until recently). Plain old krytox seems to be the standard, however, there are other mixes out there from other vendors that are supposed to be a little better.

The process is what comes with Krytox from Max V at least, and we did not wipe it out of the bores.



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sirslotalot1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:59 am

Thanks everyone, I think I am starting to get a handle on this.



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by TimInOhio » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:27 am

sporty wrote:Thats why many are using a wax and teflon combinations with the axles and wheel bores. Get really fast cars through the process also.
Sporty, what is this wax/teflon process of which you speak? I don't seem to recall hearing anything about it before.

TimInOhio



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sporty
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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sporty » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:26 am

its common process, many of the top racers are using it, adult racing people it's not often spoke about hear. another forum does talk about it.

Not everyone shares the super speed secrets in this area, they have worked hard to develop it and come up with it.


I share it in pm and elsewhere it, my process. but there are a few process that differ slightly that are just as fast and faster.


Sporty



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by FlyingDutchman » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:24 pm

Sporty - you said you posted info using wax & oil in PM... Please define. (Pardon my ignorance, but is PM another site?)

My son is in "Boy's Brigade" at our church and has a PWD comming up soon, where whet lube is permitted.

As his coach, I would appreciate any extra guidance from you or the other experienced racers here on Derby Talk on using wet lubes.

We went into the church race using graphite last year, (as he wanted to use the same lube as his good performing cub scout PWD car.) His car did extreemly well the first 4 races, but "ran out of gas" by the championship rounds.

Based on that experience, he wanted to try a "wet lube" this year, so we ordered some Krytox from an online store and plan to try it this year.

Thanks! :D



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by FatSebastian » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:03 pm

:welcome: FlyingDutchman
FlyingDutchman wrote:Sporty - you said you posted info using wax & oil in PM... Please define. (Pardon my ignorance, but is PM another site?)
PM mean "private message" - a private-reply service within Derby Talk. Sporty is saying that he sends private messages regarding his thoughts on that rather than post them publicly. To send a PM this click the Image button on the post of interest.
FlyingDutchman wrote:As his coach, I would appreciate any extra guidance from you or the other experienced racers here on Derby Talk on using wet lubes.
FYI, the Derby Talk search function can be very useful for discovering past discussion on this and other topics.



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sporty
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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by sporty » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:23 pm

FlyingDutchman,


Send me a PM, if you are pretty up to speed on alignment and rail riding. Then what i will share with you will be of use.

Do you have a track and timer ?


Sporty



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Re: Axle Oiling

Post by Slalom » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:39 pm

Hi, I just recieved the Krytox surfactant mix, it says to spray Dupont teflon spray on the axles and bores prior to lube, is this standard? what does it do? Would it be easy to screw this up?



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